bstark Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 I had a Quaife ATB fitted to the Ital axle on my sprint/road Seven last year and, after several sprints (and some recent R888's, just for sprinting) I'm convinced its getting noisier (but I know the axle is a weak point so I could just be looking for it). The noises range from various whines at different road speeds - I'm reasonably comfortable with those, given the number of gears involved in an ATB, and the whines aren't ear-splitting or anything, just noticeable. (brain tells me they're getting louder, though, ). The other noise, which I'm more worried about, is an occasional graunching noise around 65-70mph which disappears if you back off from that speed, or you can drive through it. BUT - it doesn't always happen, and could be a harmonic banging of the rear spring against the new GAZ adjustables that went in this year (they rattle a lot over bumps at low speeds). Only noticed it after the last sprint, though... So.. questions 1/ Does this sound normal for a year old ATB? 2/ I've tried to put some molyslip into the axle via the breather (having jacked it up to a jaunty angle) but only got about 30ml in before it started overflowing. I'm taking that to mean that the axle is full, but all I did was take the cap and domed thing off the top of the breather pipe and pour it into the pipe - does the pipe need to be unscrewed to then pour straight into the casing (not sure if theres a clever valve or anything hidden in the pipe)? 3/ The only other thing I could easily think to try was seeing the play in the wheels when rotating in different directions. If I rotate one forward then stop and reverse it there is about 1cm of free play at the tyre circumference (185/70/13) before the slack is taken up and the other wheel rotates. Again, lots of gears so this may be normal - any opinions? The car feels absolutely fine, though, and no vibrations or anything, so if it a case of TADTS and live with the noise, then great 😬 Bob Stark Supersprinter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Thompson Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 How do you know the axel is the weak part? If it ain't broke don't fix it. Stop being a tart. If it is going to break you will know about it in no uncertain terms. Enjoy it until it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstark Posted August 3, 2008 Author Share Posted August 3, 2008 Thanks for the blunt reply, Paul . I do know what you are saying, and I'm hoping that's the case. To answer your question, I went through two (probably old and worn) halfshafts when I first started tracking the car on AO21R's and pretty much everyone sucks their teeth when the Ital axle is mentioned in the same breath as circuit work and sticky tyres. R888's just found me 2 seconds at Lydden so they will be working the axle harder. If, for example, I have made an error in filling the axle then I'd rather know now and prevent an expensive failure rather than ignoring something on the basis that I'll know for sure when it goes bang. Still, if TADTS then great. Bob Stark Supersprinter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S47zz Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Check the pinion bearing nut hasn't worked loose. This cause all sortsa noises if it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE GILBERT Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 An ATB in any axle should be as quiet as an open diff, if it's not then something is wrong. Check other driveline components like Hardy Spicer's before jumping to any conclusions, if they feel knotchy, change em. Steve See My Caterham Fireblade Here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstark Posted August 4, 2008 Author Share Posted August 4, 2008 Thanks Steve, S47zz. I've dug out an exploded diagram from the Ital Haynes Manual ( ) - does the ATB just replace the diff carrier, so the original crownwheel and pinion are still used? If so, I'm guessing that would be my first point of call. Bob Stark Supersprinter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisHawkins Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Yes the ATB just replaces the middle bit and you retain the same crown wheel and pinion, chances are thats the noisy bit. Is it over filled? Chris K93 AMJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstark Posted August 4, 2008 Author Share Posted August 4, 2008 Chris - I reckon it is overfilled, provided you do just take the cap and dome off the top of the breather tuber, and pour in via the tube. It rapidly started overflowing from the top of the breather tube. Bob Stark Supersprinter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revin Kevin Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Bob, You say you've had two shaft failures, how did they fail, I ask as I'm trying to collate data as to what and how Ital axles break so as to rectify these issues rather than change axle types. IE, did the shafts fail at the outer end at the bearing or the inner end. Were the bearings tack welded to the shafts. Do you kerb jump on track. What engine/torque/bhp. Ital axles are stronger than people will have you believe if built correctly with the right compoments. Currently there are diffs avaliable that will take 200bhp and 180lbs of torque and most shaft failures are due to wheel bearings being tack welded to the shafts and or kerb jumping. I conclude with what everyone else had said already, the ATB should be quiet and I would be suprised for that to fail unless starved of oil. I would initially check prop joints and diff/wheel bearings. The amont of play you talk about should be fine. Cheers Chris Edited by - Revin Kevin on 4 Aug 2008 16:52:23 Edited by - Revin Kevin on 4 Aug 2008 19:25:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstark Posted August 4, 2008 Author Share Posted August 4, 2008 Thanks Chris - sounds like the pinion bearing is the most likely culprit, then. To answer your questions: Do I jump kerbs? No, I'm a fairly smooth driver, me Were the bearings tack welded to the shafts? Nope - just the original ones that probably came with the original Ital and certainly in my car since 1992... How did they fail? Basically, I started experiencing a horrible sudden shift of the back end under hard cornering, together with a knock - a bit like a much bigger version of the feeling you get when the A-frame bush is buggered. Worn shafts moving on the bearing... 7-Indulgence fitted new shafts both times, and glued the shafts to the bearings - so far, touch wood, there's been no repeat. What engine/torque/bhp? Steve Parker Racing 1700cc X-Flow to 135bhp spec, probably 125lb/ft torque. Tyres 185/70/R13 AO21R for road/track, and 185/60R13 R888 SG for sprinting. Bob Stark Supersprinter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revin Kevin Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Bob, Thanks for the info, The shafts didn't actually break then, just the bearings were moving on the shafts? This is a fairly common issue, if they move again try shimmimg the bearing off the hub, it cannot move then, easy and cheap to do. Cheers Chris Edited by - Revin Kevin on 4 Aug 2008 19:25:47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blade_runner Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Its prob going to be a worn CW&P from Oil Surge. the ATB internals should be fine. 'Pinky Pics' here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstark Posted August 21, 2008 Author Share Posted August 21, 2008 Quick update in case anyone searches on this in the future and worries they may be being a bit of a tart if they are concerned with a similar noise. Diagnosis - crown wheel and pinion totally shot. Best guess old age and oil surge. Bob Stark Supersprinter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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