Andy Best Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 I have gone from a 1.6 SS to a VHPD built by DVA . It's all in now but I've not been able to start it. The starter spinned the engine up to oil pressure without the plugs but with them in the engine doesn't turn over quickly enough to start. I've put the battery on charge to see if that helps but as it's now three years old I was thinking it might need a new one other threads suggest I should just go for a new starter, I don't want to go spending a load of money on unnecessary parts though so does anyone know how to check if its the starter or battery at fault. A the terminals have been cleaned and checked for security. When it comes to a choice of starters looking at the CC web site they only show this option here Is this what has previously been referred to as the race version? Does anyone know the Brise starter part number and is it worth the extra cash and will anyone have then in stock? Thanks Andy Edited by - Andy Best on 27 May 2007 19:48:04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnty Lyons Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 My car is 10yrs old and has evolved from a 1600ss to a 1800 DVA to a 1900 Evo2 VHPD at 244BHP it still uses the original starter with no problems I suggest you check your wiring connections and get a decent battery. jj N.I. L7C AR 🙆🏻 Membership No.3927. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted May 27, 2007 Leadership Team Share Posted May 27, 2007 Andy, mine's running a standard starter also - similar spec to Johnty's as you know. I do have a Brise starter sat in the garage if you want to borrow it to get running? More likely to be the battery that needs a good charge though? Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 Eeh, well try another starter to be sure. I went through this last year - replaced everything in the end. Turned out that the major culprit was a high-resistance connection in the Brise starter - so it was wasting valuable power through a crappy connection. It would only start the car if jumped from a running tintop. Pull all of the wiring (including earths) - check for corrosion and clean that up. If that doesn't help, try a swap-out starter. And then a swap-out battery. I don't know what the ultimate solution to all this nonsense is - my Brise is about to receive its second solenoid in two years (and they failed to get it delivered on Friday as promised - losing me two entry-fees for local sprints ☹️). 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester Racing 7s Equipe™ 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBreadhead Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 I would try checking your timing isn't too advanced first. Oilyhands has some good words on this in topic marked "xflow spitting back through carbs" Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Best Posted May 28, 2007 Author Share Posted May 28, 2007 I will double check the terminals the battery volts drop to 6-7 when cranking suggesting an electrical issue somewhere. Stu could well borrow that starter later and maybe a new battery on Tuesday. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Good thought McBread, but the Emerald map will have cranking advance of 5 degrees which should be okey-cokey. I have seen the problem before on several engines where the starter was simply not man enough, whether it was internal resistance or just too low a KW rating is hard to say, suffice to say a replacement starter did the trick in every case, putting 14 volts thru would just do it too. oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted May 28, 2007 Support Team Share Posted May 28, 2007 I had that problem with my 1.9K and replaced the starter with the Caterham "race starter" which is a Bosch unit. It works perfectly. The only snag was that it wouldn't fit under my 4-1 exhaust so I replaced that with a Caterham VHPD 4-2-1 - make sure it has the latest no 4 primary though as the early ones also will not clear the starter. Yellow SL #32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Mill Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 If you have a DVM check the battery voltage when cranking. I fitted a new battery recently and that gives just over 10v during cranking. If its much less than this I would change the battery before doing anything drastic about starters etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ferguson Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 I had same issues with mine after going to a 1.9k. new battery & original starter rebuilt & now going ok. been away on hols over last 4 weeks, batt on trickle charger, pushed button & fired up 1st time 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Best Posted May 28, 2007 Author Share Posted May 28, 2007 Fully charged battery and a jump from the tin top did the trick, the existing banner battery is just not giving enough power to get the engine going. 😬 Just need the shocks back from thier rebuild and I will be back on the road again Thanks for the help everyone Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Some times a jump will help because the starter is driven at 14 volts... So I guess it is now running Andy? Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Best Posted May 28, 2007 Author Share Posted May 28, 2007 Yes Running now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 Fully charged battery and a jump from the tin top did the trick, the existing banner battery is just not giving enough power to get the engine going.toothy smiley Just need the shocks back from thier rebuild and I will be back on the road again Some times a jump will help because the starter is driven at 14 volts... Been here with Oily before. What he's saying is that you haven't necessarily found the root-cause yet. I was convinced that I had a battery/wiring problem last time - the car would start if given a really good jump from another car - otherwise too slow for the Emerald to recognise cranking. It *was* a high-resistance issue in the starter. If your problems start to re-occur after swapping the batttery, you'll need to check out the other components. Hope you're sorted though... 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester Racing 7s Equipe™ 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 🙆🏻 Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Mill Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 I have been thinking for a while that with a little change to the wiring (bringing the alternator positive directly back to the battery rather than the solenoid terminal) it would be possible to add an extra cell to increase the feed to the starter/solenoid only by a nominal 2 volts (or perhaps 4). It would require a smart charger that pulled power from the main 12v system to charge the extra cell(s) only when the main battery was on charge (say with the battery voltage above say 13.4v) but that would be easy to organise. Of course, this is only useful if its the low cranking speed that stops the engine firing. If its just that the ECU/ignition/injectors don't work at the reduced cranking voltage then it would not help. Does anyone know the lowest voltage these things will work off? Edited by - Colin Mill on 29 May 2007 08:53:15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 The injectors work at relatively low voltage, and there is a voltage compensation scale within the emerald software that will adjust for the extended latency/opening time you experience with lower voltages. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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