AntonyH Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Hi all, Hope this is the right place - it's a legal technicality, right? ;) I think I've read that the biggest 'convoy' you can legally run without informing the police of 'an event' is ten cars. Questions: 1. Is this accurate? (or, what is the number?) 2. If one provides a 'road book' (eg. Taffia F&C run?) so that any Tom, Dick or Harry could happen to use the same route, at any time and without having to follow another vehicle, does this restriction cease to apply, even if coincidentally several people chose to follow said route at a very similar time? 3. Is there a definitive guide to this group of questions? (And any related considerations) "Organising a bit of a blat for dummies"*, as it were. Ta! *Possibly better titled "A guide to assist a dummy when he or she is organising a bit of a blat"... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I thought it was 12 .. Hence 12 car events.. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ford Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I'd be prepared to bet it's a guideline rather than a legal requirement. We certainly used to have more than 10 motorcycles together at times and it never occurred to us to inform the police. A Google search of "convey vehicles event police" comes up with lots of references to the "Battle of the Beanfield" but nothing useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ford Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Here we go (with help from Oily's comments) on a Saab forum no less: here Motor Vehicles (Competition and Trials) Regs 1969 Seems to apply to competitions rather than a simple group of vehicles going to the same place. And the MSA's comments, clearly stating the exceptions. Edited by - Roger Ford on 10 Jul 2013 14:52:04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drumster Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I always understood these events came under what the MSA refers to as 'Touring Assemblies" defined in the MSA Yearbook as: Touring Assembly. An event organised with the primary object of assembling tourists at a point settled beforehand. In a Touring Assembly a prescribed route may have to be followed. Pre-arranged points may be provided for in the event’s itinerary but no limits of speed may be laid down, nor any requirement to visit prearranged points, other than a requirement to report at a final point not later than a specified time. The programme of a Touring Assembly may include additional events (other than speed) provided that they are held only at the place of final assembly. No prize money may be allocated in respect of Touring Assemblies. A Touring Assembly may not give awards of any description, other than those in relation to activities arranged at the finishing point. The Regulations for the event must be clearly endorsed ‘Touring Assembly’. Notwithstanding anything in these Regulations, a Touring Assembly shall be exempt from the general requirements provided: (a) The consent in writing of the MSA and its approval of the regulations for the Touring Assembly have first been obtained, and (b) Where the route runs through the territory of an ASN other than the MSA, R.1.3 of these Regulations has been complied with. Elsewhere the MSA's responds to the question "What constitutes an event?" with Where an activity is organised by a Club for its members and advertised through whatever medium that Club uses to publicise its activities, that activity is an event. The organisers have a liability and that activity must have approval from the MSA. Such approval includes the protection provided by the MSA Master Policies in respect of the public liability. Alternatively, where a group of persons, who may share membership of a Club, arrange between themselves to meet up and do something together, then such informal activities may not be construed as a Club event and do not require approval from the MSA. So my reading of this is that blats organised via BlatChat are an organised club event and blats organised between club members but not publicised are not club events. I haven't seen any reference to the number of vehicles in the MSA yearbook though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 Ooh, excellent, many thanks all. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian B Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Where an activity is organised by a Club for its members and advertised through whatever medium that Club uses to publicise its activities, that activity is an event. The organisers have a liability and that activity must have approval from the MSA. Such approval includes the protection provided by the MSA Master Policies in respect of the public liability. Alternatively, where a group of persons, who may share membership of a Club, arrange between themselves to meet up and do something together, then such informal activities may not be construed as a Club event and do not require approval from the MSA. This is a key point to bear in mind, as an event organised through the club (with MSA permit if needed) is covered by the club/MSA Public Liability insurance. 🙅🏻♂️ Anyone organising an event outside the club will not have the benefit of that insurance, so simply saying we'll do it privately may not be such a good idea if something goes wrong. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 Thanks Ian, that's a good point. In this particular instance it's not an 'event' as such, just a few people going for a drive one day. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers1 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 What Chris "Aeroscreen" has posted is spot on. The 12 cars comes in to it if "The Club" were to run an event (so anyone organising it via Blatchat or other Club medium) it would not need to meet any of the MSA criteria if under 12 cars. If over it needs to conform and liaise with the police etc. get and MSA Permit and so on. Hope that clears it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S47zzz Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Not really. Don't the MSA do the Police liaison if a permit is applied for - so all that an organiser of a "club" event needs to do is make a fairly simple application to be covered by the club/MSA insurance? Not a big deal really for peace of mind. However, what if the club wasn't a member of the MSA? Presumably it wouldn't be subject to the MSA requirements?? Apart from the MSA statements, what is the legal statute for non-MSA affiliated organisations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ford Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 See my link to the "Motor Vehicles (Competition and Trials) Regs 1969" above. Really isn't an issue if there's no element of "competition" involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon.Rogers1 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Its not a competition but as an MSA member club we need to conform. I am not sure about the statute. No the organising club still needs to liasse with the police. The MSA assist with this process. I have spoken to the MSA on behalf of the club a number of times to try a work around whenever there has been a thought that we could steer clear of the regs at any time. Just because its not a competition does not mean it does not need a Permit. Please re read Chris A's post above. Then ad to that if above or below 12 cars even a Club event is iin or out of the regs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 what if the club wasn't MSA affiliated - why are we affiliated ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Quoting Dave Jackson: what if the club wasn't MSA affiliated - why are we affiliated ?We can't run sprints or take advantage of MSA insurance if we're not affiliated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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