Sideways Mike Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Does a dry sump system give more power? I am getting confused. On the one hand I have been told that a dry sump system uses more power because it is driving a second pump via a pulley. On the other hand I have read you gain power because there is no drag from oil sloshing around the crank. O.k, which is it ? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg Posted February 8, 2004 Share Posted February 8, 2004 Bit of both. You do add weight with all the bits, but you are not driving a 2nd pump as it replaces the original. You do gain power, not only with less friction from the oil in the sump, but also there is more air "space" for the air to move between cylinders (as each piston strokes). Some people also believe that running the sump with as low pressure as possible (below atmosph.) helps suck excess oil from the head. What this all add's up to I have no idea, but it seems sensible to do if you plan track work on an otherwise expensive engine just from an oil starvation insurance POV, power issues aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted February 8, 2004 Leadership Team Share Posted February 8, 2004 Greg - Pace setup uses 1 multi section pump to scavenge (double) and pump oil into engine. Although this is only one pump the work done is still a 2 pump action - I'm not sure anyone has worked out the loading on the engine compared to the Caterham wet or dry sump setup? Caterham setup retains the original oil pump doimg it's original job, but adds the second pump to scavenge. The power issue has little relevence - if a dry sump is needed for the conditions in which the engine is working then there's no point in using a wet sump to save weight and power - it'll reduce the weight in you wallet if you do! Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideways Mike Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 Gents I have just raced a season and have recently found that I have little compression in number 3 this route cause of this problem is believed to be nothing relating to oil starvation etc.. If I fit one it will be the caterham one using two pumps, I do not want to waste £1500 if I do not have to hence the thread. I had heard different advantages/disavantages and require clarification Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted February 8, 2004 Leadership Team Share Posted February 8, 2004 Before you jump in with the Caterham setup have a talk to Neil at Pace - their's really is a good piece of kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideways Mike Posted February 8, 2004 Author Share Posted February 8, 2004 Hi Stu Unfortunately I have to run a Caterham supplied dry sump to comply with the regs Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted February 8, 2004 Leadership Team Share Posted February 8, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 A dry sump will save your engine , if you do track work and I assume you have a K , then you will get oil starvation in hard cornering . The guage may not show it as the damping action is so heavy its a few seconds behind what the actual engine is doing . The dry sump system will draw power from the engine to run the scavenge pump , but you may gain some power from the crankcase being dryer . Either way , your engine wont blow up due to starvation with a dry sump . The cheapest route is to fit the scavenge pump , sump pan and then use a seperate oil tank instead of the caterham belltank . This also means that you wont have to remove the engine to fit it all . dave Lotus 7 Club Speed Champion 2003 South Wales Area Organiser C7 TOP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dino ferrana Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 If he is racing in a Caterham championship I imagine he will have to fit all the Caterham stuff. It isn't cheap but it is a good system and works very well. It will save your engine and you may get a slight power gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTD Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Depends what race series you are doing. Academy is not allowed a dry sump, the three Graduates classes are. You could post on www.graduates.org.uk and take a poll on how many have dry sumped their engines - my impression is that the answer will be a minority. Not sure about Roadsport B and Roadsport Inter classes. 750MC 7's Challenge can have the dry sump. But I have just had one (Caterham kit) fitted to my Mega Grad car as a part of the upgrade work, and realistically I did it on the offchance it'll make me faster. No doubt misguided! G 4 Geoff I do not want a carbon fibre steering wheel! Edited by - GTD on 9 Feb 2004 11:09:01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Faulds Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Of the 4 cars that won rounds of the Supergraduates series last year, only one was dry sumped - do not kid yourself about it making the car faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Not sure power is the issue here. I wouldn't risk an expensive engine racing with a wet sump for reasons stated above. Think of it as an insurance policy. You cannot quantify the cost/benifit as you don't know how many engine rebuilds you'll need with/without dry sump lube. However, is there any doubt that dry sump lube works better than wet in a racing situation? norman verona 1989 BDR 220bhp Mem No 2166 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTD Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 'Works'? Well there is no doubt that a dry sump is better for the engine. But if you mean 'faster' then, there's plenty of doubt! G 4 Geoff I do not want a carbon fibre steering wheel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Faulds Posted February 9, 2004 Share Posted February 9, 2004 Norman, Horses for courses. Super/Megagrad engines do not die of oil starvation (under normal circumstances), so the major benefit of a dry sump is void. However, they have historically had problems with pistons breaking up, so in my opinion you would be better spending the money on a new set of pistons mid-season than a dry sump. RSA this year will be running the same engines (mostly) and tyres as Supergrads did last year. Theory is all very well, but it's useless if not adapted to the environment you're working in. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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