philip smith Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Could a k series clutch release bearing have gone at only 13,000 miles, the car has developed an awful noise when you press the clutch in to change gear or wait at a junction, it disappears when you knock it out of gear and lift of the clutch. (Only to be replaced by the slightly quieter but just as embarrassing ‘gearbox rattle’) I am assuming the noise is a knackered clutch release bearing, but as the car has only done 13,000 steady road miles and my every-day ‘shed’ has had 90,000 miles of abuse with no CRB failures as yet I find it hard to believe. Have I just been unlucky or is there something more serious happening. If it is the clutch bearing am I ok to drive the car, the sun is shining and my conservatory needs finishing so I can’t really spare a weekend to drop the engine, I can cope with the noise, but am I doing more damage by still driving it, could it fail catastrophically with no warning and shag the whole clutch/flywheel assy? Finally I realise the engine needs to come out to change it, so is it good practice to swap the clutch at the same time, if so is the standard clutch the best bet or am I better upgrading to something else, if so any recommendations, I do a fair bit of town driving so nothing to extreme, (the engine is 140bhp 1.8k at present but I intend when finances allow to go for a 175bhp upgrade, not sure if this will have an effect on the choice of clutch) Not able to search the archives so apologies if this topic has been covered already. Just a quick note to clarify the problem, the noise is definitely not the usual “they all do that sir” six speed box rumble, the new noise is much louder and higher in pitch and sounds far more serious. Thanks in advance, Phil Smith Limegreen 1.8 Superlight No. 89 Edited by - Philip smith on 25 Jun 2003 14:15:03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 It is common for them to get knackered at those mileages. The bearing itself will be intact, but the carrier sleeve will have broken up. You can survive like this for some time, but further breakup can lead to debris seizing the clutch. Does the clutch sometimes operate quietly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 They (6 speeders) all seem to make a nasty rattly sound at idle with the clutch down and the car in gear. HOOPY R706KGU Hoopylight R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevSull Too Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Mine did the same at around 9000 miles, a nasty squeak when clutch pressed, OK when lifted. Steve Foster took a quick look at it and added a little grease to the (technical bit coming up) shaft thingy that the carrier sleve doobery runs on. This shut it up for around a thousand miles. Unfortunately it's now starting to come back.... Looking at an old clutch plate that Steve had lying around, I don't think that the clutch would need changing at such low mileage. 😬You laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at you because you're all the same. 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip smith Posted June 25, 2003 Author Share Posted June 25, 2003 Peter, Yes, sometimes its fine no noise at all, also i can usually get the noise to stop whilst waiting at a juntion by pressing and releasing the clutch pedal half a dozen times but the noise returns at the next junction. This car is my 3rd seven and the clutch seems to be alot stiffer than the other 2 and has a much more defined bite point during the last 2% of the pedal travel, its very all or nothing not much scope for feeding it in gently(i recently swapped the clutch cable but this only slightly improved the feel)As a side note when i am playing the fool on quiet streches of road, quick standing starts and flicking the back end round 'formula 1 style' when you have missed the turning make the clutch smell quite baldly, is this normal? Cheers, Phil Smith Limegreen 1.8 Superlight No. 89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynicolson Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Phil, Whenon the May tour in Ireland we (the collected gathering of se7eners) thought the same may have been the case with my car, in the end it was actually the spigot bearing, however the point of the poosting was to confirm that every six speed se7en I've been in appears seems to have the rattle, once my engine was out I decided (having just bought a new clutch but then not actually needing it) to fit the upgraded AP Racing clutch. Since then i have driven in town and heavy traffic, and though the cable needs some adjusting would say it is a worthy improvement whilst the engine was out. cost c £250 for parts I think. Richard Tricks...aka darstardly Y57 CDS "Mutley" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 The angle that the cable attaches to the pedal can change the feel drastically, but this also changes the reach to the pedals. The caterham pedal adjustment is a bit pants really, because there is only a small range of adjustment for each pivot point that gives acceptable actuation of the clutch. FWIW, I think the clutch should actuate in the smallest amount of motion at the top of the pedal. Otherwise it is just so much wasted motion, not suited to a proper sports car. Typically if you slacken the cable to move the pedal further away on any given pivot, it lengthens the clutch travel. You can go so far that full clutch disengagement is not achieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I believe the Iraqi information minister now works for caterham !!!!!. When I spoke to the gent on the sales desk - via telephone , he simply said that there is no problem with these release bearings & there never has been . Well why do you sell so many then ?? - we dont sell many at all . Hmmm the accent has been lost in the short time he has been in the UK , but I wonder if I should contact Mr Bush and let him know ?? PS - if your reading this Caterham - WAKE UP THERE IS A PROBLEM !!!!!!!!! dave ( real name ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary G Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I agree Dave, there IS a problem. There have been lots of threads on this before. My car is beginning to show signs of CRB failure after just 9000miles. I am not happy about it, and even more so when Caterham deny the problem exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_H Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 I too have given up trying to get Caterham to sort this problem – my last bearing showed signs of failure after 3000 miles. ☹️ Dave_H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V7 SLR Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 There was once a problem where the gearbox nose was not long enough for the CRB, or not wide enough... can't remember. The problem was either the CRB falling off the nose of the gearbox altogether or running off-angle causing the CRB carrier to break up. Anyway Caterham issued a sleeve to fit over the gearbox nose before you fit the CRB. Appears to have cured the problem in most cars but Daren Ball's still kept failing anyway. I've an SLR of a similar vintage (late 99) and (tempting fate) I've never have a clutch problem at all. Haven't even looked at it since installing it 3 1/2 years ago. Worcs L7 club joint AO.//Membership No. 4379//Azure Blue SLR No. 0077//Se7ens List Tours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2D2 Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 There was a post a while ago about making sure that the CRB was kept in light contact with the clutch at all times and I wonder if this may be part of the problem. Obviously a rolling element bearing doesn't like accelerating and decelerating and will tend to skid and be damaged. It should be better if it is kept up to speed. I wonder if there is a problem with return springs on some cars and the bearing is not in contact until the gearchange? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 IIRC another 7 owner who had suffered two premature CRB failues was going to return the bearings to the manufacturer to examine. I think it was John Vine but cannot be sure. If it was you John have you had any feedback 🤔 Mark D Su77on Se7ens Avoiding the Kerbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 Mark, Yes, it was me. I'm just back from a long trip abroad, so have only just picked up this thread. I'm off to Goodwood over the weekend, but I'll post all the facts early next week. The upshot is that I believe there's a fundamental design fault in the standard Caterham CRB set-up (insufficient pre-loading of the CRB against the diaphragm fingers), and that this leads to overheating, lubricant loss, and subsequent carrier failure. The solution is to ensure constant CRB/finger contact by increasing pre-load by means of extra pedal return springs in the pedal box. More news shortly. JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Green Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Or by shortening the existing spring to increase the pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quotVernquot Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Yeap! Had that problem after just 7K!!! 1.6SS 6 speed. Caterham denied the problem........Really hope you are listerning you chaps in Dartford Why in some and not in others? Could it have something to do with the accuracy of the casting of the belhousing? If this is slightly off centre could that mean the shaft is not quite central and therefore puts an uneven pressure on the bearing? Don't know. Just asking the question. Got to say the carrier is made of absolute S~~T. A steel carried would probably be and extra 50p and a lot more hard wearing. I'm just waiting to see just how long this one lasts. If Caterham have any better ideas I'm sure we would all love to hear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Belmont Prisioner I doubt it has anything to do with the bellhousing as my previous CRB was in fine fettle when I replaced it after 12K. I only changed the CRB as I was upgrading the clutch and flywheel and thought it prudent to do so ❗ I was assisted by an experienced mechanic so I doubt there was a problem with the installation I await John Vines update with interest Mark D Su77on Se7ens Avoiding the Kerbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Mark et al, I've just realised that I've already posted details of the CRB manufacturer's comments, together with details of my suggested fix! For info, see here. JV Edited by - John Vine on 14 Jul 2003 16:03:01 Edited by - John Vine on 14 Jul 2003 16:03:31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip smith Posted July 15, 2003 Author Share Posted July 15, 2003 Cheers for the link John, I have had a look and i think i can understand what to do, any chance of some digital photo's just to make sure. thanks, Phil Smith Limegreen 1.8 Superlight No. 89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallom Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Hi, Just a little warning about the extent that this noise can go and the possible damage that can occur. I have a K-series onto Ford Type 9 in my Fisher Fury and after many months of rattling CRB it suddenly stopped and the clutch release started to feel very strange. with the last part of the clutch pedal travel being very stiff. About 1/2 hour after that a very loud metalic scrapping noise started and the clutch wouldn't release. After getting it towed to a garage the following was discovered. The bearing had worn so much that the running face had dropped off and jammed between the end of the guide sleeve and the clutch release plate cutting a 2mm gouge out of the gearbox input shaft. Lots of cash had to be spent!! This is a problem that can get very serious _very_ quickly!!! David 1.6 K engined Fury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Phil, I've a couple of reasonable quality pics showing (1) the original and modified springs, and (2) a pair of modified springs fitted in the pedal box. I'll e-mail them to you (and anyone else who requests them -- just let me have an address). Actually, this whole saga has prompted me to offer an article for LF. I'll get in touch with Roger.... JV Edited by - John Vine on 18 Jul 2003 18:24:29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 John Any news from the CRB manufacturer following their inspection of your failed CRB's 🤔 Mark D Su77on Se7ens Avoiding the Kerbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Mark, Just click on the link in my earlier post (about three up the thread). You'll find the full feedback there (and very illuminating it is, too!). JV Edited by - John Vine on 18 Jul 2003 20:27:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 David, Just a little warning about the extent that this noise can go and the possible damage that can occur. That's very good advice. After my first CRB failure, the gearbox sleeve extension (steel, mind) was quite badly scored. A dose of carborundum stone sorted it out, but if I'd left it any longer, I'd have needed a new sleeve (at the very least). JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Speak of the devil, I've just noticed this noise this pm for the first time ever. Just a one-off event - the noise has gone again now. I'm irritated to read that there seems to be a problem and its being denied. Has anyone succeeded in getting any sort of deal for a replacement - I'm now a "poverty-stricken student" and am not pleased about the prospect of having to have this replaced - I can forsee an expensive labour job for a two-bit part... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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