O2 sensor and controller; which are you using?

[Nigel Riches]

I am looking at installing an O2 sensor and controller, to help get the Emerald and Jenveys to play nicely on the Zetec.

However having a bit of a dig around on the web, the Innovate LC-2 controller doesn't exactly get a good review, many cases of failed out of the box, I don't really need that sort of hassle, being a complete novice at this type of tuning.

The physical wiring it all together is the kind of thing I have many years of experience at, so no problems on the side of the page. 

I have looked at the Zeitronix pages and these seem to be well reviewed on other car web pages, no name, no shame. And allegedly "Made in America" well hmmmmmm.

So anyone out there got any input about this, before I launch hundreds of $$$$ into the etherweb.

Any assistance gratefully received, cheers.

Nigel.

[aerobod - near CYYC]

Hi Nigel, my LC-2 has worked flawlessly for 7 years now. I think most of the problems are related to people bending the pins in the connector between the sensor and controller. They are small pins that have to be treated like a piece of computer equipment and placed in a suitable environment inside the cockpit (my control unit is screwed to the inside of the firewall near the fuse box with plug connection easily accessible tucked behind the dash). The sensor plug does need to be accessible for calibration, I normally do the 5 min calibration twice per year, including the time needed to unscrew the sensor in the exhaust and expose it to free air, then reinstall it again.

Hopefully the quality hasn't gone down hill since I bought mine.

I couldn't find anything else on the market with the capabilities of the LC-2 anywhere near the price, when I bought mine in 2015. I replaced the Bosch sensor once after 3 years of use due to still running a bit too rich initially and filling the sensor holes with soot, but the replacement sensor was only about CAD$90.

[Nigel Riches]

Thanks James, much appreciated.

The bending of pins was one of many gripes from people, who are perhaps not so gentle on the kit. I think I could be ok in that situation. 

Just as a further question, is your sensor installed at the convergence of the headers into the collector? I have a boss on No. 4 header for a sensor, but it is only about 8 inches from the exhaust port, too hot, and only one cylinder being monitored.

I will be looking at getting a boss just before the silencer. And then figure out the wiring route, as it would be rather exposed in that position.

Anyway, bash on. Thanks.

Nigel.

[Ian Macquarie]

I've used an Innovate LC-1. I initially had some problems with noisy signals which were cured by incorporating a 1:1 OP amp.My bigger concern has always been exhaust sealing and the possibility of air being sucked into the joints of the 4:1 collector.

I notice that Emerald sell a kit (I think it may be a 14point7 product). Whilst I've not looked around at prices or reviews, I think I'd probably be tempted by that.

Ian
 

[cobar]

I used an Innovate for years with my Emerald, but switched to the AEM X-Series as part of an engine upgrade 2 years ago.  Reviews seemed more consistently positive and I did find some testing showing that it reacts more quickly.  I can't confirm it's better, but I've been pleased with it thus far and purchased a second AEM for my new project.  

-John 

[Nigel Riches]

Thank you all, good info here, I hadn't considered the leakage aspect, so may just stick with the port on No. 4 header.

Anyway the dyno driver phoned this morning, it's set to run on 27 April, and that leaves enough time do some other stuff on it, like install the Quaiffe ATB and Jigsaw CWP,  don't want a diff blow up on the machine, very bad look. 

[Molecular--Bob]

Innovate do an extender bung with cooling fins, but not cheap and will need machining to get the inlet port to face in the right direction in your exhaust bung.

[aerobod - near CYYC]

Hi Nigel, my Lambda sensor is installed in the 4-in-to-1 section. Sealing is achieved using standard high temp exhaust silicone (the copper type). Too close to the exhaust port in a single header pipe may shorten the wideband sensor life and will not detect issues such as misfire in other cylinders or deal with slight variations in injector metering between cylinders. In that location (used by all modern Caterhams) no bung extender or cooling is needed for the sensor, but it shouldn't be installed below the exhaust centreline to avoid startup moisture pooling in the sensor and killing it.

[Nigel Riches]

Thanks again.

James (aerobod) I have bought an AEM-X 30-0310 wideband set up, I will be removing the collector this afternoon, for a trip to the local bespoke exhaust pipe manufacturer in town to get a stainless mounting installed. 

Have found a supply of O2 safe sealant, either Loctite or Permatex, so things are ticking along.

Thanks for your assistance, much appreciated.

Chers.

Nigel.

 

[Nigel Riches]

Thanks again.

James (aerobod) I have bought an AEM-X 30-0310 wideband set up, I will be removing the collector this afternoon, for a trip to the local bespoke exhaust pipe manufacturer in town to get a stainless mounting installed. 

Have found a supply of O2 safe sealant, either Loctite or Permatex, so things are ticking along.

Thanks for your assistance, much appreciated.

Chers.

Nigel.

 

[aerobod - near CYYC]

Sounds like a good solution at a reasonable price, Nigel. Does it come with a Bosch LSU 4.9 sensor, or is that an add-on purchase?

With my controller, I wired it into the existing narrow band sensor connector so I didn't have to change the existing wiring to enable reversion back to narrow band in the future if needed. I used the old narrow band sensor connector body, extracted the old pins and crimped new ones onto the controller power, ground and signal wires. I ran the controller wiring and wide band sensor connector wiring through a grommet in the firewall and screwed the controller on the inside of the firewall below the scuttle, but in a place I could see the controller LEDs by looking under the dash, to accomplish the free-air calibration every 3-months or so of use.

If you plan to use free-air calibration (usually recommended to adjust for sensor aging), it is worth ensuring the wiring at the sensor end has enough slack and doesn't go through the side panel, but under it and has something like a P-clip that can easily be unscrewed. This allows the sensor to be unscrewed the 3 or 4 turns to remove it from the exhaust bung to do the calibration, but without having to mess around with the wiring.

I have generally used the Permatex Ultra Copper sensor-safe sealant, put a thin smear on the 4-way connector surfaces, then push together and wipe off the excess expelled from the joint, then checked for any leaks with after curing for a day or two by having a helper briefly block the exhaust tip and using washing-up liquid on the joint to check for any bubbles.

[Nigel Riches]

James, this is the complete kit, controller, cables and sensor Bosch LSU 4.9, I like your idea of removing the pins in the connector so as not to have a large hole through the panel, did the pins release easily? I do have a few tools to aid pin removal, but I bet they won't work on this. 

What angle is your sensor mounted?, seems directly upright is a no no, I could probably get a 15deg tilt inboard, prefer that side rather than outward facing, and hopefully the exhaust pipe might offer a bit of protection from F O D.

Do you have a long mounting for the probe? or the standard approx 15mm thing.

Neat leak tec idea for the exhaust sealing, will defo be checking that out when it's all back together.

Back to installation, as my car dates from 1982, I have clamshell wings, and right alongside where the sensor will be installed there is a wing stay / steady,  I plan to use this to support the cable and put a small hole through the side panel for the cable, and route it around the engine bay to the ECU, you have to have a plan, otherwise you won't know when it's gone wrong .

Anyway, bash on.

Nigel.

[aerobod - near CYYC]

Hi Nigel, I removed the pins with a jeweller's screwdriver, I don't remember the pin type or size, but I seem to recall they are similar if not the same as used with Econoseal connectors. As this is removing the pins on the old sensor, the alternative is just to locate and buy a new 4-pin plug together with the pins, they should be fairly easy to obtain as the plugs are pretty universal for all O2 / Lambda sensors (4-pin for narrow band, 5-pin for wide band).

My sensor is very slightly below the centreline of the exhaust on the inside (about 20 degrees down), which isn't ideal, but this is the standard position on an R400D exhaust. It should be possible to place it horizontal to about 20 degrees up if your exhaust has enough clearance to the side panel. The standard exhaust I use has a close to flush mounting bung, so the sensor is in the exhaust flow as opposed to some that are extended away from the flow.

This is the collector I have on my car: https://caterhamparts.co.uk/collectors-catalysts/3616-collector-duratec-no-cat-various-models.html

[Nigel Riches]

Cheers for the link, there isn't sufficient space between pipe and panel for orientating to far down, this a Raceline setup.

Good old jewelers screwdriver to bend the tang down, not seen that done before . 

Hopefully this will arrive early next week, so may do a bit of dummy alignment with the silencer off.

I like your comment about the connectors being easily available, down here in NZ, some of this stuff is made out of Unobtainium, hens teeth are more available.  

Cheers.

Nigel.

[aerobod - near CYYC]

I think we can get things a little easier here in Western Canada than NZ, but last time I bought a few bags of Econoseal connectors I ended up buying them from some chap in Devon who was internationally shipping out of his garage.