K Series starts then dies immediately

[green george]

I have been using the search engine but can't find these symptoms.

I have a EU2 1.6 K Series with a FIA battery switch and starter button.  With the power switched on:

I use the fob to arm the immobiliser.  Once the red LED settles to a steady flash;

I then disarm the immobilser and the LED goes out;

I then turn the ignition on and can hear the fuel pump priming and the usualy clicking from under the bonnet;

I then press the starter button and the engine startsand then immediately cuts out - as if the immobilser is still armed.

I have repeated the process a number of times without success.  The engine will continue to turn over on the starter button but will not fire.

Any ideas what is going on?

 

 

 

 

 

[green george]

Update:  I used jump leads to try and start the car thinking that the battery may be down on power (albeit it was new this year).  This made no appreciable difference to the engine note as it turned over.

I could smell fuel and was concerned that the engine may flood.  I slowly opened the throttle to WOT and closed it and tried starting it, again.  The engine turned over fine oil pressure rose but it would still not start.

I tried again and as I did so I opened the throttle slightly using the accelorator and the car started and ran roughly BUT would only run with the throttle being held open.  As soon as I closed the throttle the car stalled.

So I am happy that the immobiliser is disarmed but do not know why the car will not start.   

[revilla]

If you keep it running on the throttle for say 20 seconds, will it then run without throttle? This sounds very much like a car I spent considerable time investigating a little while ago. The problem was the current draw from the starter motor was pulling the supply voltage low enough for a small fraction of a second that the ECU was resetting. As part of the reset process it cycles the IACV and the engine won't run without throttle until this has completed. Whilst investigating this I came across numerous other cars with similar issues, all of which had Brise starters. Fitting one of the affected starters to my car brought the problem with it and fitting a standard Magneton cured the affected car. The only way to see the transient voltage drop was with an oscilloscope. Looking at even a good engine it was clear that it was marginal at best. Any resistance or wiring problems could cause this. What starter do you have?

[revilla]

PS: If it still won't run after 20 seconds we need to look at the IACV first.

[green george]

Hi Revilla

Thanks for your input.  The short anwer is I don't know what model starter I have.  The engone would not run on its own after 20 seconds. 

However, I wiggled and checked all the connections I could easily lay me hands on and the engine started.  Time will tell if this was just a random glitch or a more significant issue.

Thanks again

George 

[Jonathan Kay]

From Andrew's thoughts and that wiggling it sounds as if something is a bit marginal.

I'd disconnect, clean and reconnect all the relevant feeds and earths. Then I'd measure the voltage at rest, during cranking and at 3,000 rpm.

You really don't want that random thing happening when you're away from base.

Jonathan

[revilla]

What Jonathan said!

 

So for 20 seconds it would run happily with a bit of throttle but it died as soon you tried to let it idle on it's own? Just trying to think what could do that ...

 

1) It doesn't sound like the transient voltage drop problem.

 

2) If you remove the air filter (one big jubilee clip) you should see the throttle butterfly. Make sure it and the throttle body around it are clean. Sometimes it can burp oil up through the crankcase breather and the throttle opening at idle is tiny so can easily be closed off by gunk.

 

3) While you are there, check the butterfly is not loose on it's spindle. I've come across that before. A loose butterfly will give erratic idle problems, but worse that that if one of the loose screws works its way out it will be ingested by the engine which would not be good news.

 

4) The Idle Air Control Valve (IACV) can also get gunked up via the same route as the butterfly with similar results. It is easily removed and cleaned with carburettor cleaner spray. On that subject, after turning the ignition off, do you hear the normal clicking and whirring ("electric chicken") for a few seconds from the IACV (as the ECU resets it for the next start)? If not it would suggest the IACV isn't working properly.

 

5) You could get idle issues if the throttle position sensor was either faulty or slightly out of calibration. The ECU uses a different strategy to maintain engine speed when it knows it is idling and slight errors in the TPS can lead it to not realise it needs to go into idle mode. You can "retrain" the ECU to the characteristics of the TPS ... I know the procedure for EU3 but I think it differs for EU2; maybe somebody could please advise?

 

Can't think of much else at the moment. Would normally advise checking for fault codes with an OBDII scanner but the EU2 ECU won't talk to one. I think you would need somebody with a Rover T4 disgnostic to check it out properly; a Land Rover dealer may well have the kit to scan it for you if needs be, but hopefully one of the above will gst you sorted.

[revilla]

Sorry for the lack of line breaks, I'm doing my best to type on Android! Grrrr

[green george]

Thanks everyone I will work through your recommendations.

George

[Tigger]

I had a similar problem last years, initially I thought it must be aicv related and swapped the valve with no effect, however the issue was eventually found to be related to the aicv but far more simple to fix. It turned out that there had been some crud build up inside the cam cover just where the small hose connects he cam cover to the aicv.  My fix was to remove the rubber hose from the cam cover ( no tools needed) and then with a pipe cleaner ( or in my case a small stick) prod around in the hole to dislodge any crud. Re-fit hose and start engine. Voila! 

I hope oped something this simple works for you.

Tim