Steve Campbell Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Help please ! First track day of the year on Friday so decided to check over the car tonight, Won't start. Last run a few weeks ago in the good weather. Tried but nothing. Battery low (pulling about 11.9 on the stack readout) so connected up to the tiptop to jump it. Now read 14.9......Electrics light up, fuel pump primes..as per normal....turn the key...nothing...no sound, click or anything. Any clues on where to start the hunt ? I am an electrical dunce so simple easy instructions !!! It's a 2008 r400 duratec Thanks Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted April 24, 2012 Member Share Posted April 24, 2012 Probably one of: Wiring/ connections Starter solenoid Starter motor (Could be the starter switch) Have you changed anything nearby recently? Check that you're not immobilised Visual inspection of battery and starter wiring and disconnect, clean and refit relevant connections. Continuity testing isn't a good enough test of ability to pass high currents. With car in gear rock a few feet forwards and back to unlock the starter in case it's jammed. Make sure that the jump leads from the other battery are well connected. You can get enough oomph to light up low current circuits but not enough to start. If none of that has changed anything connect a live feed wire directly to the solenoid terminal and see what happens. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 Hi Jonathon...nothing changed since last used and no problems then. So far : I've checked not immobilised (rocker switch is down). I know I have enough juice as I am connected to my tintop to try and jump and the Stack Dash is reading 14.9V (reading just less than 12 without connecting to tintop) Master switch is working as all lights, fans, fuel pump etc kick in. Checked connections to battery and they are sound and clean. Need to check starter not jammed ..off out to do that now ! I've checked the master ecu 30 amp fuse and thats fine. For your last point...not sure how to do that..just take a wire from red terminal on battery to where ? (sorry...I said I was a dunce)..back soon to report on rocking ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted April 24, 2012 Member Share Posted April 24, 2012 :-) That's both ends of the wiring you've checked... ? I reamin sceptical about voltages with jump leads and "good connections", but leave the multimeter connected while you jump start and see if there's any drop. Can anyone advise on the solenoid terminals on this model to test what happens with a direct feed wire? Jonathan Edited by - Jonathan Kay on 24 Apr 2012 19:26:38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markiebabes Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Sounds like immobilizer/starter Fly lead direct to battery will tell you if its (starter) working Do you have a blipper for immobilizer ? Starter wire loose ? Battery Masterswitch ? Relay loose ? Edited by - markiebabes on 24 Apr 2012 19:26:29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 red key on a cord round your neck still 😬 Hi Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markiebabes Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 yep Hi Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Possibly wire failed inside insulation near the solenoid. Turn ignition on and take a wire from battery red terminal and touch it on the small terminal on the solenoid. You can remove the connector off this terminal first. Be prepared for a spark, and to jump !! Safer if you crimp a connector onto this end of your wire and push it on to the terminal, the touch the other end on to the battery terminal. Less chance of shorting cable onto the engine when you jump ! I bet it is the little relay in the MFRU that has died. Mine did. I Simply disconnected the feed wire into the MFRU from the starter button and fitted an external 4-pin 30A 12V relay to connect to the solenoid terminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markiebabes Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 ok here's an update. Tried rocking and no difference. I don't have a multimeter...I'm relying on the stack dash reading. It's 14.9 with my tintop running and drops to about 14.5 or 14.6 when I try to start. It's not the master switch..I have power (all the lights work, the heater fan etc) I turn the key, the fuel pump primes( or at least I can hear it whirring)...I then have to turn the key another "notch" to fire her up...when I do this, nothing happens....no clicks, sounds or anything. Have tried to trace the wiring but looks like a pain on this car (I think I'm going to have to remove the plenum chamber and water bottle to even get my hands into where the starter motor is.... !). Can someone confirm this > ? If yes, can I just unbolt, slide it out of the way and then re-bolt it back on afterwards or is it more complicated than that ~~(is there a gasket etc) Keep the ideas coming...will now have to try them tomorrow night ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted April 24, 2012 Member Share Posted April 24, 2012 What SM25T says sounds logical. And wouldn't produce a click or a voltage drop when you try to start. ** That was posted before you said there is a slight drop** Presumably you can also test for this by measuring the voltage at the solenoid terminal as you try to start, then working back up to the suspected relay? Jonathan Edited by - Jonathan Kay on 24 Apr 2012 19:36:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted April 24, 2012 Member Share Posted April 24, 2012 Go and buy a multimeter. Safety notice: disconnect the tiptop before you drive it off to the shop. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 errr...I just got it started...and I am NEVER going to admit to anyone what I did / didn't do as I am a complete numpty 😬 😳 😳 😳 😳 😳 😳 😳 😳 😳 😳 😳 Thanks for help anyway ! The car is fine.....senior moment on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markiebabes Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Steve try wiggling the Red key sometimes they can cause problems ? Not sure on the duratec but you should be able to reach the starter to try the fly lead test from underneath ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markiebabes Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 I have them hence ians post above glad your mobile again 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted April 24, 2012 Member Share Posted April 24, 2012 Quoting Steve Campbell: errr...I just got it started...and I am NEVER going to admit to anyone what I did / didn't do as I am a complete numpty 😬 😳 😳 😳 😳 😳 😳 😳 😳 😳 😳 😳 Thanks for help anyway ! The car is fine.....senior moment on my part. So now you can take the 7 to buy the multimeter. How about you give us twenty questions, then you have to say what it was? Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted April 24, 2012 Member Share Posted April 24, 2012 Question 1: Do you have a starter button that is not the same assembly as the ignition switch? Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 I reckon he has just joined the Markiebabes 'Red key still round the neck' club 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 NO COMMENT !! *redface* 😳 I should win a prize for the biggest muppetry in all blatchat land Edited by - Steve Campbell on 24 Apr 2012 20:07:34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Long Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 welcome to my world 😬 Longy 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Will take that as a 'yes' then 😶🌫️ Or ..... Turning the key, not pressing the big red button ! How long since you drove it ?? Edited by - Stationary M25 Traveller on 24 Apr 2012 20:39:49 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markiebabes Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 *redface* easily done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Campbell Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 Ok OK...not pressing the button..... In my defence, I did press the button to start but the battery is knacked I think....and in my blind panic of "oh my god I won't be able to make the trackday" I forgot when jumping it off the tintop :-) I still can't believe I did it ! It's an f'ing big red button for christs sake ! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stationary M25 Traveller Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Well done for confessing 😶🌫️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted April 24, 2012 Member Share Posted April 24, 2012 We all make mistakes. One of the things I work on is patient safety. Persuading people to get down to root causes is necessary, difficult and time-consuming. In my area of work it nearly always involves both human behaviour and technology... Have a great trackday Jonathan PS: Did I recommend buying a multimeter? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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