Joespeeder v2.0 Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 Hi All, Was out yesterday for my 1st long drive. About 45 minutes into it the car developed a stumble that got progressivly worse and then died. No sign of trouble up to that point. I was going a steady 70mph on the freeway and the trouble happened over the course of a mile. Once it died it would pop slightly but wouldn't refire. After having the car towed home to a repair shop it started right up. I drove it home. The shop said the fuel pump control unit might be suspect. But they really didn't know since it was running ok after its trip on the tow truck. When I was stranded and trying to start it the speedo jumped around when I cranked it. Never seen that before. It is rock steady now. I also posted a note on the California Caterham Club site thinking they probably have more SVT motor cars there than anywhere. Maybe there's some wierd SVT thing. I've started looking for a faulty ground somewhere. But can't find any loose or even dirty connections so far. Anyone ever have a fuel pump control go bad ? I don't have any suspect codes in the computer. I don't know if the shop erased any that might be there. But since they couldn't find anything I don't think any showed up for them. What could make it die like that ? It ran great for the 1st 80 miles then stummble, stumble, Arghhhhhh..... (at least that what was carved in the rock ). Joe TheCaterhamProject.com - Build site with photos here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 Joe, Could it possibly be a beathing problem with the tank - not venting properly so you loose fuel pressure? It sounds a little like the symptoms I had with a car a number of years ago. Turned out to be a partially blocked vent. Great to hear of another Seven on the road. Hope you get it sorted soon so you can get out and enjoy it. Dave H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joespeeder v2.0 Posted April 15, 2005 Author Share Posted April 15, 2005 Dave, When I was stuck roadside I removed the gas cap thinking that same thing. It didn't do any good. Would removing the cap vent the tank ? Or could it vapor lock where taking the cap off would have no effect? Joe TheCaterhamProject.com - Build site with photos here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Formston Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 Hi Joe has your caterham go A MFRU on it its A black box with two plugs going to it, and it houses the fuel pump relay and starter relay and thay are renownd for being dodge. Thay fit them to A Rover that is one of the reasons Rovers are so unreliable and have such A terriable name, and are going bump because any one who knows any think about cars wont buy one so check it out it could be that mate best Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joespeeder v2.0 Posted April 15, 2005 Author Share Posted April 15, 2005 Paul. That dosen't sound like a part I have. I do have a Fuel Pump Control Module. It controls the pump and runs it at whaever speed it needs for the fule injection. The FPCM is the reason my fuel take dosen't use a return line like a non injected car I'm told. I wonder how much one of those cost ? You'd think it would set a code in the computer if the FPCM was failing. I'm out of my element here. Bolting the thing together is one thing this part of the build is black magic to me. Joe TheCaterhamProject.com - Build site with photos here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Rohaley Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 I had a similar problem shortly after getting my car(2001 w/Zetec). Turned out to be the ground connection to the engine block from the wire loom, just under the coil pack. I would suspect wiring first given the odd actions of your speedo. Try this to test, turn the ignition on, take off the bonnet, and wiggle the wiring harness. What you will find if you do have a problem there is the fuel pump will start and stop when the ground is disturbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Rohaley Posted April 15, 2005 Share Posted April 15, 2005 The ground wire ties in on one of the bellhousing bolts, crimping a new end on solved the problem. This problem happened to me about four times before I figured it out. Always suspect the simple stuff first. Mine is a US spec car also (I'm in Ohio). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joespeeder v2.0 Posted April 15, 2005 Author Share Posted April 15, 2005 GREAT !!! Thanks Michael, That gives me somewhere to start. Wiggling wires I can do!!! More than that, it gives me a repeatable test. Joe TheCaterhamProject.com - Build site with photos here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joespeeder v2.0 Posted April 17, 2005 Author Share Posted April 17, 2005 Here's the update. Friday night I wiggled every wire I could and more. No resetting of the fuel pump. I drove the car close to home up and down the road, let it idle and heat soak real well. No sign of the stumble or any other trouble. So I called Ken told him I was on my way to his house Saturday and to have the trailer ready just in case. Off I went, he lives an hour away and the problem seems to come at about 40-45 minutes into a drive. Made it there with no troubles He got out his Miata Speed and off we went to Hell. Literally, Hell, MI is a TINY town with a bar and a grocery store. The roads to get there and back are spectacular blatting roads. After a quick photo of the Seven next to a painted wall that states you are in "Hell", we returned to Ken's. It's a 40ish minute round trip. No sign of trouble with the car. About 40 minutes into the return trip home from Ken's the car started to stumble and died. Just like before. A quick call to Ken, and he loaded up the trailer and retraced my route to find me dead on the road. This is about an hour later. Another 1/2 hour trip home and when I tried this time the car fired and I drove it off ther trailer. 😳 In looking at everyhting yesterday, I did notice the rear most water hose sits RIGHT ON the fuel line (both are rubber at that point). I'm trying to remember how I had the heat set in each of these drives. I "think" I had the heat on each time the car died. I know on yesterdays trip to Hell the heat was off. I did a google seach on vapor lock and there seems to be alot of arguments about modern motors not being able to vapor lock. What ever my problem is it's correcting itself after about 1 1/2 to 2 hours. Then the motor runs fine again till it starts to stumble and then just softly dies about 40 minutes into a trip. I'll keep you posted on any progress. If I can't track the problem down today then it's off to the repair shop. Time for a professional. Joe TheCaterhamProject.com - Build site with photos here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xflow7 Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Hey Joe, Hope you enjoyed going to Hell. 😬 I was just blatting out that way a week or so ago. Sorry to hear you're still struggling with this. Was planning on dropping you an email today to see how the troubleshooting was coming along. The vapor lock idea is interesting. If I'm not mistaken, the gasonline companies adjust vapor pressure of their fuels from season to season; high vapor pressure in the winter to improve cold-start, low vapor pressure in the summer to reduce evaporative emissions. As we are just coming out of the cold season here, perhaps the fuel being sold is still higher vapor pressure than is really ideal for the temps outside. Combine with your observation of the coolant hose on the fuel line, and you may be on to something. From what I understand the claim about no vapor lock on modern cars is made based on the much higher fuel line pressures in FI cars vs. carb'ed cars with mech. fuel pumps. But if the vapor pressure gets high enough (due to seasonal mixtures plus considerably elevated fuel temperature), I suppose it could still be an issue. Later, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Formston Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Hi Joe the fuel vapour lock sounds good, but if that dose't work try that fuel pump relay modul it could be getting over heated and not working and then the fuel pump would stop working. Also check the crank senser I had A problem similar to yours on A B M W and did'nt you say the first time it stopped the rev counter when hay wire that do'es sound like it could be the crank senser best Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Turner Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Joe I had exact same symptons on a Golf GTi back in the mid 80's, the car ran fine until the fuel pump became noisy and then shortly afterwards for no apparant reason it would stutter until it stopped. After a short while, probably about 15 minutes it would restart and run OK with no fuel pump noise. The problem never happened on a motorway, only when driving in town or slow moving traffic. The problem was easily diagnosed as fuel related simply because of the noisy pump and the fact that early GTi's had mechanical injection, the actual fault took more tracing. First off the local VW garage replaced the noisy pump under warranty but after a couple of days it happened again. I was towed to another VW dealer who laughed when I explained the problem, the first dealer had replaced the noisy (high pressure) pump but it was the low pressure pump in the tank that was the real culprit. It was pumping insufficient fuel thus the main pump overheated, the fuel overheated/vapourised, the pump became noisy and then stopped working along the the car, once it had stood for a while and cooled down all was OK, driving on motorways seemed to keep the pump and fuel cool. If your car does not have a return line back to the tank as you say earlier in your posting it could be that the fuel is overheating/vapourising and causing your problems. Hope that helps. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joespeeder v2.0 Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 Here's the update. Sunday I let the car idle for about 1 1/2 hours with the heat on. I left the hoses touching like they had been to this point. When I got up my courage off I went to drive around the local subdivisions. It was a perfect day here and I had all day to wait or I could push it home if needed. Just as I got to the main road it started to stumble just like before. I quickly got across the street into the ajoining sub. Dead. Cool. I was going to wait it out. Then I remembered reading to cool the fuel line if you suspect vapor lock. A quick call to mom. for some ice and a wet towel. Mom's rescue arrived in about 8 minutes 😬 I carefully wrapped the fuel rail in the wet. cool towel, and iced the rubber fuel line. After 3 or 4 minutes of this. The car coughed and fired up!! Each time before it was about two hours before it would refire. Went home, had lunch and tried to repeat this again. I put a total of over 100 miles on thae car yesterday. Starting close to home and then progressivlely farther away. It never died a second time yesterday. For now I'm still working with it and if I can get it to repeat the fault, I will check spark with a spark tester before icing it. If I have spark, then ice it and it starts. Then I'll move the hose, do some insulating, and carry ice with me for a while till I'm comfortable. I did notice the speedo rotates when cranking. So I'm having doubts about what I was seeing when stranded on the side of the road. I was so bummed about being stranded with no help available I wasn't as sharp as I should have been about what was going on. I can't thank everyone here enough for all your help. Be sure to be nice to your mom. Joe TheCaterhamProject.com - Build site with photos here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Next time it happens remove a spark plug (probably not easy on a Zetec) and carefully check that you have a spark. That is the first thing to consider as from there you know which direction to carry on your investigations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Rohaley Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Nice bit of trouble-shooting. I had no trouble in this regard on my car and when I get it back I will check my plumbing to see how my lines run relative to each other. I was hoping my theory would prove to be right but oh well, master mechanic I am not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joespeeder v2.0 Posted April 21, 2005 Author Share Posted April 21, 2005 Thanks Michael, You are very gracious but I'm still waiting for the next failure to confirm the trouble at this point. This type of troubleshoting is not my strong suit. Since my last post I have put about 150 miles on the car with no failure. I also bought a spark tester and will pre test all plugs before I go out again so I can be sure what they should look like. The locals are getting a good look at the car since I'm staying close to home just in case. The last time it failed it gave me just enough confidence to keep trying. Since it refired right after my ice trick. If I move lines and insulate them now I'll wonder forevr if I really fixed it or it was just dumb luck. I will keep updating when I have any real news. For now I'm going everywhere with a spark tester, a bucket of ice, a wet rag, and a cell phone If it fails and I get spark, then ice it down and it refires then I'm golden.. Lets hope. Anyway, I post more when I know it. Joe TheCaterhamProject.com - Build site with photos here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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