AMMO Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 Managed to get some wishbones and 18 mm ARB for the front of my early De Dion car which has forged top links. Apart from cutting a hole in the bodywork for the front top mountings I think that changing the top wishbones should be quite straight forward. As for the bottom wishbones I could just leave the originals, somehow modify the uprights from trunnion to spherical bearing (has anyone ever done this?) or change the uprights for later ones. The latter is probably the best route but also the most expensive as I would probably have to change the shox as well. Also has anyone fitted an adjustable front ARB? Any advice gratefully accepted. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE GILBERT Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 Ammo, a couple of days ago I was reading some early 90's Caterham instructions for the top link mod you are doing which came from a Mod kit. They describe replacing the lower wishbones as well, for new ones of differing length. Do you know if this is essential to geometry as I was thinking of doing the same mod myself All.Knowing1@talk21.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 7, 2001 Author Share Posted February 7, 2001 Steve, my car came with what I think are negative camber bottom wishbones. They have no bracing tube from front to back along side the body of the car. The wheels have visible negative camber. I suppose if you are fitting the late type top wishbones (as opposed to the extra bit to brace the original top link) you can just adjust the top rod end to adjust camber. Are you going to stick with the trunnions? Any chance of a copy of the instructions you have? I could really do with a template for cutting the hole in the bodywork if anyone has this. Thanks. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 I have an adjustable front ARB. Works exactly as it should and great when the roads are wet. Takes longer to get out and back in the car than it does to adjust. Available from Gary May alias Juno Sportscars - see his add in Low Flying... Arnie Webb Organiser- L7C Le Mans Trip To book for this years Le Mans Trip see The Le Mans Trip Website It really is very very very very full now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 7, 2001 Author Share Posted February 7, 2001 Thanks Arnie, I'll give Gary at Juno a call. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GasMan Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 Ammo A few years ago now I retro-fitted the A frame top wishbone and ARB to my 1989 De-Dion without any problems. The holes in the Ali were a bit heart stopping! I retained the negative camber lower wishbones and the trunion based uprights. Although the taper into the upright on the new A frame is not a perfect match I am told its OK. I gave my car some serious exercise with sprints Hill climbs and track days and when I very recently changed to wide track front there was no apparent wear at the tapers. Until I changed to wide track this was definitely the best modification I had done in terms of improvement per pound. If you do change the lower A frame make sure you get the correct front bushes. Early cars have the split bobbin type with non parallel sided tube where they seat. I had a bit of a job getting the wide track lower A frame to fit to my 89 car, but it can be done without too much bother and its really worth it. All the best GasMan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE GILBERT Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 Sorry AMMO but the template that went with my mates car was long gone. I you make one up I'd like a copy. Bright bloke like u probably won't get much value from the fitting Instructions but I'll get em if u want them. Be a few days though. All.Knowing1@talk21.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 8, 2001 Author Share Posted February 8, 2001 Thanks for the information GasMan. If I fit the lower wishbones as you suggest do I have to change the uprights? Which ARB did you use on your converted car, is 18 mm too big for road use. Have you got any bits left over that might be of use to me, I dont have a full kit of parts to complete the conversion. Bits like the bracket for the front top wisbone mountings the ARB balls and mountings. Anyone else done this conversion who has an opinion or advice? AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Is this the same mod thats available to live axle cars cos if it is I've just fitted one. You have to have the negative camber bottom wishbones which are easily identifiable from the Caterham diagram. You get a new top link which bolts to the forged top wishbone and holds the new thinner arb. The hole cutting in the side skin is easy particularly if you use the recommended tool. I have copies of all instructions and templates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 9, 2001 Author Share Posted February 9, 2001 John, Steve kindly faxed me the instructions today but he no longer has the template for the hole cutting. Is it possible for you to fax me a copy of the template? Fax Number is 01728 602103. Thanks. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Will monday be ok? I have got all of the stuff at home. If you need it before then I'll go to Pronaprint and send it. Do you have the correct tool. If not then I'll lend you mine?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 9, 2001 Author Share Posted February 9, 2001 John, what a wonderful chap you are! Monday will be fine as I'm waiting for bits from Caterham to complete the kit of parts before I start to take the car apart. I'd like to borrow the tool if I may. I'll e-mail you direct to arrange this. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 I have just ordered the conversion that I think you have been discussing, from Redline today. My car is a classic, so currently has only one lower wishbone, and one forged link at the top. The conversion appears to fit a bracket behind the antiroll bar ally blocks, to which a half wishbone attatches. I have read the messages but am still a bit in the dark as to how to go about cutting the right sized hole for the bracket, how should I find the exact bit to cut? What is the correct tool? I am intending on keeping the lower wishbones fitted at the moment..but if anyone can advise on this please let me know. Finally, what sort of difference will I notice when this is fitted, I use the car on road/track/Le Mans doughnuts/Nurburgring etc!! Any help/advice would be hugely appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 9, 2001 Author Share Posted February 9, 2001 Robster, I'm trying to fit a complete top wishbone from a later car, but effectively the conversion is very similar and a lot of what we have been talking about applies. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John E Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 The kit is very easy to fit. You will have to remove the rad and current anti roll bar. The new arb fitting also upports the new top link bracket at the rear. with the hole cutting tool there is no problem at all in doing the job neatly. Mine did not scratch the paint or damage the surrounding metal in any way. The new top link fits into the original arb mounting on the top wishbone, the new housing also receives the end of the new arb which is thinner and no longer acts to locate the top wishbone. AMMO, I will post the tool off to you on Monday and fax you the templates and current instructions. NOTE. I fitted this kit to a 1990 live axle car. The results have been more positive steering with better feedback at speed. There is less tendancy for the car to wander on white lines etc and the turn in is better. It did not however stop me losing the back end on a slippery road a couple of Sundays ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.R. Posted February 14, 2001 Share Posted February 14, 2001 Ammo Re your first posting "has anyone converted uprights from trunnion to rose joint".... I have, took an hour or so between centres on a small lathe & then screwcutting or die threading. Worked fine, great money saving but slightly weaker in an accident due to the drilling for the grease nipple running through the centre of the upright. As for geometry I used standard narrow track late type upper & lower wishbones, camber can be adjusted to whatever required no idea what the castor is I shall just learn to live with it when it finally hits the track this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted February 15, 2001 Author Share Posted February 15, 2001 Thanks to everyone for the information. I now have all the bits I need to do the conversion, all I need to do is find some time. Thanks to John E. for the loan of the tool for making the hole in the ali skin. John has a Green car. I know this because on dismantling the tool I found a neat one inch disc in BRG. Still in two minds if I should use the original bottom wishbone or to go with the late one. I'll probably make my mind up when I get it all to pieces and see the condition of the various components. I spoke to Gary at Juno. They make a tubular adjustable front anti-roll bar with ali block mountings for £150.00. If my setup with the 18 mm bar is too hard I'll probably go this route. Thanks J.R. for the info on converting the uprights. I'll let you know how I get on. AMMO Edited by - AMMO on 15 Feb 2001 07:56:50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted February 15, 2001 Share Posted February 15, 2001 My double wishbone conversion kit has arrived today! The 'slots' that need cutting in the body are worrying me still. Can someone let me know what the tool looks like or perhaps lend me one to cut these holes. Tin snips look like they will distort the ally badly. I have a dremmel but am worried that this might be a bit severe. I know this topic has been discussed at length but any practical help with hole cutting would be gratefully received! Thanks Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Bucket Posted February 18, 2001 Share Posted February 18, 2001 John, This is the mod that I'm intending to make to my Classic SE. Two questions. 1. Where did you get your kit from (Redline ?) 2. Do you have to use the new thinner arb. The Caterham parts book appears to show the thicker (old) arb holding the new top link to the original forged item. Anyone got any photos of this mod that they could send by email ? Many thanks, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bafty Crastard Posted April 26, 2001 Share Posted April 26, 2001 If you are considering the top link modification make sure you ask for the "adjustable" kit which uses a top wishbone similar to a de-dion setup, not half wishbones fitted to the original top cast link. Slightly more costly and available from Caterham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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