AMMO Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 I would like to do this mod at some point. I was told along time ago that Peugeot have an ali 2 pot caliper with hand brake cable. Possibly fitted to a 205 GTi 1.9. Anyone know if this is true or if there is a production caliper that meets these requirements? As I have an early car with the handbrake under the dash I never use it as I can't reach the damn thing. I always park in gear. I need the hand brake for the MOT once a year. Has anyone come up with a novel solution to get through the MOT using a proportioning valve? I was thinking that if you had a screw type brake proportioning valve to the rear you could stomp on the brakes, screw the valve shut and the pressure should keep the rear brakes locked. Could you get through the MOT with this if you had a friendly MOT man? Think of the weight saving! Lever, cables, heavy calipers replaced with alloy ones. 6 kilos? Thanks AMMO Edited by - ammo on 19 Jan 2003 07:07:29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Phillips Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Last 8 years I've run hydraulic handbrakes on 3 kit different track cars needing MOT. Strictly its illegal as I think the MOT says you need a mechanical set-up but no MOT station has ever noticed them and questioned it. Some of the Rally boys have a hole in the propshaft tunnel and slot a bar into the UJ for the test. I prefer a one of the dragster's line locks to the rear wheels. The proportioning valves variety IMHO seem to be slow to return fluid allowing the rear brakes to drag momentarily under normal braking. Racing pics and items for sale here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted January 19, 2003 Author Share Posted January 19, 2003 Trevor How does the hydraulic hand brake work? I assume it is fitted to the rear circuit only. Can it damage the seal in the main master cylinder or have I misunderstood the way it operates? I assume it will be putting pressure on the main master cylinder seal for it to work. Regarding proportioning valves, I may have to fit one as when I change the front calipers for 4 pots the rears may be overbraked as I assume I will have more brake pedal travel. Do you have any recommendations for which sort to use? Is the screw type a no-no? Oh! extra question. Do the lever type proportioning valves shut down completely. Could this be used as a handbrake for the MOT? Thanks AMMO Edited by - ammo on 19 Jan 2003 08:12:18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby dooby doo Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 hi-spec will shortly be moving into production of such a caliper in alloy. estimated cost is under 200 + vat. HOOPY 500 kg R706KGU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Handbrakes have been checked in the past at sprints I have entered with the Midland speed - Road going class . Ammo - Rob Walker may be worth contacting as he did a lot of investigation work into proportioning valves . Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Phillips Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Ammo, I've used the TAS Motorsport screw down type. IMHO it is noticeable when racing in the wet that the rears are still maintaining reduced pressure for up to 3 seconds after releasing the pedal. Caterham have a unit for the ex-Vauxhall challenge cars - mine's seized and I will have to replace it before the start of the season. Guess I'll find out if they are any better in due course. The line lock has a convenient lever, I've used it on Dave Edmand's car at Brighton for a burn-out and it was very simple and effective. As it doesn't have a locking device like a rachet & pawl it could be a problem for scrutineering as they tend to be more precise than some MOT stations. With the hydraulic system on the normal handbrake you need to box it all in so it isn't obvious. I recently took mine through the SVA with the convential Caterham under dash set-up and that passed OK. You just need to loosen off your belts to reach it [oh, and it fouls with all my wiring loom going into the tunnel]. Racing pics and items for sale here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 When you fit a hydraulic handbrake it fits in line, ie in series, with the normal master cylinder rear circuit. When you use the footbrake pressure from the footbrake master cylinder is fed into the connection on the handbrake master cylinder where the reservoir normally sits. As the handbrake is off fluid just goes straight past all the seals in the handbrake master cylinder and the footbrake works as normal. When you use the handbrake the seal first off all moves away form the connection to the footbrake master cylinder then pressurises the back brakes. The handbrake master cylinder can't pressurise the footbrake master cylinder anymore than putting the footbrake on will pressurise the reservoir on the footbrake. The only time they interact is when you have the handbrake on and you press the footbrake, the handbrake cylinder then stops the footbrake returning properly. But as the handbrake is on anyway this has no effect, when you let the handbrake off both the handbrake and footbrake come off together. Might sound a bit of a bodge but it's been done for years and years on rally cars and it works really well. Not strictly MOT legal but what the hell. As long as you don't rely on it to hold your car on a hill for more than a few 10's of minutes then it is perfect. Just do it, you won't regret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Haighton Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Ammo - I've seen this caliper+ handbrake conversion done on a live axle car (at a Curborough sprint). Calipers used were from a Pug 205 (1.6 or 1.9 GTI, I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Just a note on hydraulic handbrakes, when the footbrake is pushed you have about 1/2" of handbrake lever travel however when the handbrake only is operated you will have about 3" of travel depending on the lever ratio and when the footbrake is operated when the handbrake is in operation you will feel a force on the lever thats pushing it down. So make sure that the MOT man does not operate the footbrake on the same time as the handbrake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted January 19, 2003 Author Share Posted January 19, 2003 Thanks for the info guys. Lots to think about. Must sort out the front brakes first and then take it from there. One way or another those heavy old Sierra calipers are definately going in the bin. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted January 19, 2003 Author Share Posted January 19, 2003 Allan I had an early Pug 205 1.6 and I'm pretty sure it had rear drum brakes. The 1.9 has discs all around. Edited by - ammo on 19 Jan 2003 18:01:58 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanteam Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 I have read that the Audi A8 has an electro-mechanical parking brake. How does this square with MOT etc, that is, not a mechanical link to handbrake mechanism. Other OEMs, or their suppliers are developing similar systems. Not really relevant but might be an interesting discussion point at MOT time? Also I understand that Fiat have alloy calipers for the rear of the 'Weekend', made by Lucas, similar geometrically and function as the Sierra set-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted January 21, 2003 Author Share Posted January 21, 2003 Thanks Deanteam There is a Fiat breakers near me. I'll give them a call. Luke Beaumont s going to come around with his Pug 1.9 at some point, so I'll have a butcher's at those as well. AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 Ammo, Keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miraz Posted January 21, 2003 Share Posted January 21, 2003 The handbrake arrangement on the tintop is interesting... It has a small drum brake concealed inside the center of the rear brake disc to act as a handbrake...not sure if this could be made to work on a seven though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMMO Posted January 21, 2003 Author Share Posted January 21, 2003 Graham I just spoke to a Citroen mechanic friend. He tells me that the rear ali caliper from a Citroen ZX Vulcane are the same as the Pug Gti 1.9. He's getting me a second hand set to have a look at. Normally £134.00 each new. £60.00 a pair second hand. If I can graft them on, even if they need new pistons and seals, it could be a good way to save weight. Deanteam The Fiat guy said that the only caliper he remembers was from the X19. He didn't have any but said that they were pretty big. Is the Weekend the later Marea perhaps? I'll keep the Fiat option open in case the Citroen ones don't fit. Thanks AMMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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