Mole Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 The build manual says attach the engine earth strap to bare metal under the right hand side engine mounting rubber. I have assumed that this "strap" is the thick insulated wire coming from the alternator (which is exactly the right length to attach under the front bolt of the left hand mounting rubber).There seems to be no other reference to this anywhere else in the manual! Is my assumption correct? 1.8 K series SV. The Mole - it's better than being a rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 That doesn't sound right. Big wire coming from the alternator should end up at the starter motor (er.....I think....). Engine earth strap should have one end bolted to the engine, and the other in the position stated in the build manual. It should be quite thick, and look like plaited steel (if it's a "bare" one) or a plain ordinary black battery cable if it's covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Green Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 You should have two thick black cables in the kit. They are both pretty short, but one is shorter than the other. The longer one goes from a starter motor mounting bolt, say, to the earth terminal on the battery. The shorter one effectively jumps the engine mount bracket on the off-side. One end should be secured by one of the bolts holding the engine mount to the block; the other end is held by one of the bolts holding the engine mount rubber to the chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miraz Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Blatman is correct - you might want to grind a little of the powdercoat off the chassis rail in order to ensure good electrical contact - a liberal coating of copperslip will help stop any corrosion setting in. Miraz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterg Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Big wire(s) from the altenator should go to the large terminal on the starter solenoid ie. the one that the +ve battery cable attaches to also. There should be a short braided cable which is the engine earth strap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted May 28, 2002 Author Share Posted May 28, 2002 Thanks guys - I've obviously got this completely wrong! I had wondered what the two black "battery cables" were for! I don't recall any mention in the manual about the cable from the alternator attaching to the starter solenoid! Looks like an evening of studying ahead! It all reminds me of Hoffnung's bricklayer - "when I had finished there were some bits left over ...." The Mole - it's better than being a rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Green Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Hmmm. I think you'll find that the big wire from the alternator goes to the positive battery terminal, in order to charge the battery ? The starter motor takes its power feed straight from the battery. The alternator isn't generating any current when the starter is cranking (which is why the light is lit on the dash at this time), so it would make no sense to link the two together. Those two earth leads: the little one that bridges the engine mount, links the chassis, which provides earthing for just about all the circuits on the car, to the engine block. The one from the starter mounting bolt/bellhousing completes the circuit to the battery. Hope that helps smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterg Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 The reason the big wire from the alternator goes to the starter rather than the battery is that if you fit a Battery Master Switch in the positive cable from the battery, the alternator would still be connected whereas by fitting it to the starter everything is isolated - and the battery is still charged via the starter terminal 'cos it's attached to the +ve battery cable there instead of on the battery itself so you see Nick it does make some sense after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Seems like further proof that the master switch arrangement is a bodge. If you don't have a master switch, definitely fit it to the battery positive because you want as few wires as possible head underneath the exhaust headers. Peterid=blue> eek.gifSecond loser, Class 5, Curborough May 2002id=red> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Green Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Peterg, I am speaking from my experience, as no doubt you are. Perhaps I should expand a little: My car has a 1.8K (not VVC, I grant you) and a battery master switch. The big wire from the alternator (in the Caterham/Rover loom) definitely does not go on to the starter motor. When the engine is running and I take out the master key, the engine stops and I cannot re-start it. Whether that means the alternator is "isolated" is another matter. (Seeing as the battery discharged when I took out the key, when the car was delivered... now fixed.) What type of battery master key is fitted to your car ? Is it the one with four small contacts on the back, as well as the big starter lead ones ? I didn't fit the one on my car, Caterham did, so I can claim no expertise there. I do know that there is a different type of master key available, (nos 10 an 11 on page 177 of the DT catalogue, for instance) which seems to have only two contacts on it. If that is the case, I can see there is a logic to setting things up as you state. Mole does not state that he even *has* a battery master key, though, so we could be debating an irrelevant point in this particular case. If this is the case, then a standard Caterham set up does not connect the alternator to the starter motor. Still smile.gif Edited by - nick green on 28 May 2002 18:18:18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vine Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 As yours is the SV, I guess the manual has been updated since I built my 1.8K in 1999. But assuming the sections and paragraph numbers are the same (and that you have no battery master switch -- I don't), you should have (in Section 14 -- Rover engine): 1. Para 14.4(a)(xi): Attach the (longer) black lead from the black (earth) battery terminal to the upper left bellhousing bolt (no doubt, like me, you'd already tightened this up!). 2. Para 14.4©: Attach the (shorter) black lead from the foremost bolt attaching the right-hand engine mounting rubber to the chassis rail to one of the engine mounts on the block. Hope this helps. JV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 And whichever combination of wiring you use, DO NOT connect the thick wires from the alternator to the chassis/engine mount....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted May 29, 2002 Author Share Posted May 29, 2002 Thanks everyone - seems to have generated a bit of debate! I think I've got most of it sussed now - the short and long "battery" type leads both fit OK (for earth strap and bellhousing => -ve terminal respectively). John - your para 14.4(a) is my 10.3, but your 14.4 © doesn't seem to appear anywhere! As far as the cable from the alternator - there is no mention at all in the manual! It isn't part of a loom - it's out on its own, and it definitely isn't long enough to reach the +ve battery terminal. It is long enough (any has the right terminator) to fit to a starter motor terminal - and since this is the only connection point within range (other than the chassis) I guess this is going to be the answer. Unfortunately I think I feel a call to Caterham coming on - ho hum. I don't have a battery master switch The Mole - it's better than being a rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted May 29, 2002 Author Share Posted May 29, 2002 I have spoken Caterham and have the definitive answer!The thick wire from the alternator attaches to the same stud on the starter motor solenoid as the thick red wire that goes to the live terminal on the battery. This applies to the latest (EU3) version of the K series 1.8. The previous version of the same engine (EU2) had a long wire that attached directly to the +ve battery terminal. Apparently it was decided that a long wire was pointless where a short one would do - hence the reason for the change and the confusion on this thread! The also recommend attaching the engine end of the earth strap to one of the unused threads in the side of the block (rather than to one of the engine mount bolts. This is for two reasons: i) it doesn't compromise the strength of the engine mount bolt; ii) if (like me) you have already torqued the mount bolts to the correct setting, it avoids having to interfere with this just to fit the earth strap - not a good idea once the weight of the engine is on the mount (and avoids all the messing about of taking the engine weight off the mount etc.). The Mole - it's better than being a rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Morgan Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Picking up on this thread rather late, but I have a related query. I'm replacing a Crossflow with a Zetec, and have therefore fitted a new starter. The old unit had only 2 connections: a main power feed direct from the battery, and a "control" feed from the loom to the solenoid. The new starter has 3 connections. One is obviously the same "control" feed to the solenoid, but there are 2 heavier studs. I'm assuming that the larger of these is the main power feed and that the smaller is for a direct earth return to the battery negative (it certainly has zero resistance to ground). However, it seems from this thread that it may be for a lead from the alternator. Any advice anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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