irrotational Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Symptoms:- Car sometimes won't start - just the standard click, no attempt to turnover. This happens maybe 1 in every 4 or 5 times I get in the car. It happens regardless of being hot or cold, but seems slightly more frequent when cold (but I start it from cold a lot more) Last time this happened I tried jumpstarting it off the civic - made absolutely no difference and still got the click. Rocking in gear has no effect (but maybe coz I am too wimpish to rock it enough) It always bump starts quite happily - one time my wife was pushing and we weren't going quick enough, when I engaged the gear it turned over a couple of times and died. However I could then start it quite happily as normal! Car:- 1997 Superlight with 1.6 K series in it. Starter/Solenoid has been taken apart by the 7 workshop and cleaned. Diagnosis:- After reading a lot on here, all the electrical issues seem to revolve around the starter not getting enough power, so I am assuming that the fact that jumpstarting didn't do anything rules out any electrical problems? The only other problem I have heard about is a worn ring gear - so I'm assuming it's this? Am I correct? I have seen pictures from Angus's sit showing what to look for but can't find them? Is it possible to see the worn area relatively easily? What do I have to remove? How is this fixed? Is it engine out? I am a complete novice mechanic - I know what spanners look like and that's about it, but if it's only undoing a few bolts then i'll probably be ok 😳 Any help or advice gratefully received Andy --- this is a local sig for local people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul McKenzie Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 It's the solenoid - there's lots in the archives Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozz Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Andy There's lots of threads here on the K series starter 'click'. Suspect from your symptoms that it may be related to your MFRU which controls the starter motor solenoid. Do you have an FIA 'kill' switch fitted to your car? Bozz My Chocolate Orange here Edited by - Bozz on 6 Jul 2006 15:47:00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irrotational Posted July 6, 2006 Author Share Posted July 6, 2006 I know there is lots in the archives about the solenoid- however they all seem to cover the starter motor not getting enough power don't they? So if that were the problem it should be "fixable" by jump starting off another car to get twice the power. Presumably if it were an electrical fault that managed to defeat two batteries then it wouldn't be intermittent, something would be totally dead? Or have I missed something? --- this is a local sig for local people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 irrotational, if you have a multimeter test the voltage you get at the smal wire going to the starter solonoid. This wire is very close to the exhaust and cen get "cooked". It looks OK on the outside but the strands inside are baked brittle and give a very high resistance. I've seen 6v when the battery reads 13.2v If it less (by more than 0.5v) then cut it at the bulkhead and reroute a new piece of heavier wire behind the starter. Use male and femal spade connectors to make the joints. The symptoms of a worn ring ring are screeching sounds as the starter gear hits the worn teeth on the flywheel. Remember that the ring gear only wears in two place as the crank only stops in two positions. I doubt very much if you've worn the flywheel ring gear. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Reg: B16BDR, Mem No 2166, the full story here You and your seven to The French Blatting Company Limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozz Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Andy See this here.... here Bozz My Chocolate Orange here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinfourth Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Oh no the ring gear is a much more unpleasant noise then click incase you missed it the first time round "industrial mincer being feed ball bearings and squirrels. Strange metallic crunching noises with the occasional pained squeak." The happy handle made me do it here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irrotational Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 ok so it looks like hours of electrical fault finding for me then! I thought i had read that a worn ring-gear could also lead to clicking rather than squirells but I must be confused ❗ Thanks to all for help/advice. Andy --- this is a local sig for local people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I'd try a new battery first I noted that a jump start didnt make any difference - this is often cos the battery is kaput here is C7 TOP South Wales AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irrotational Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 Dave, The only reason I don't suspect the battery is that I have had the car start perfectly after being left for two weeks with the immobiliser on, but not start after a petrol station stop, after driving all day at a trackday? (where it started every time). Is this correct? I don't have a lot of time, money or equipment to try and diagnose the car so I am trying to do as much as i can by theory - probably a big mistake! Once I manage to get hold of a voltmeter/anmeter thingy then hopefully I can check things like battery, solenoid voltage etc pretty quickly. --- this is a local sig for local people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 ahhhhh ok back to "K click" then .......... ☹️ here is C7 TOP South Wales AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 IR, you can get a starter "click" with worn ring gear. It's the starer gear (pinion) jamming in the flywheel ring gear. Rocking the car in gear wil turn the flywheel which will "through" the pinion out of it's jammed state. Do the voltage test at the solonion (small) wire with starter turning over. Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Reg: B16BDR, Mem No 2166, the full story here You and your seven to The French Blatting Company Limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irrotational Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 Norman - stupid questin but how much rocking/movement do you have to do, to do this? I have rocked as hard as i can (oooh-errr!) but the car doesn't move very much and i certainly dont feel the engine turn over at all. (It doesn't fix the problem) As I said above getting a partial turnover when trying to bump start did mean the normal starting process then worked fine.... Anyway will make a start on the electricals (pun not intended) --- this is a local sig for local people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normans_Ghost Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 If the pinnion is jammed in the ring gear it may need a hard jolt. put it 3rd and push backwards (engine needs to go in reverse to unjam gear). If you can get some help then do a bump start backwards. (do not have ignition on) I'll still be surprised if it's that - unless you have a habit of engaging the starer when the engine's running! Norman Verona, 1989 BDR 220bhp, Reg: B16BDR, Mem No 2166, the full story here You and your seven to The French Blatting Company Limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irrotational Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 will give 3rd and backwards ago, next time it happens... --- this is a local sig for local people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Gurr Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Andy, This used to happen to me every now and again. One of the wires going into the starter got hot (as it was so close to the exhaust primaries) and the solder fractured exposing the contact. When the car got hot the wire would often break contact and not deliver the power to the starter from the battery. Since getting the work done at the 7 workshop the car stopped doing it, but it sounds like the old problem has crept in again. I think your best bet is to replace the wire (sorry, I can't remember which one it was). I certainly dont think it ring gear. Superlight no 46 12,000 areroscreen'd miles in 18 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Gurr Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Sorry mate, just read the above. I am almost 100% sure the issue is as per Normans first post Superlight no 46 12,000 areroscreen'd miles in 18 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irrotational Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 okey kokey will have a look at wires/solenoids (although to be honest i have to work out what a solenoid looks like!) but the rocking will be tried first as thats even easier 😳 going to durham for the weekend so will have to hope for friendly petrol station staff! --- this is a local sig for local people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Gurr Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 If you get stuck, pop the bonnet and give the wires going into the starter a wiggle. It is a temporary solution, but often creates a connectin to allow you to start the car again (just be wary of those hot manifolds 😳 ) Superlight no 46 12,000 areroscreen'd miles in 18 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irrotational Posted September 17, 2006 Author Share Posted September 17, 2006 hmm well it took me slightly longer than i thought to have another look at it!! 😳 Re-read all the k-click threads, spent 3 hours driving to various maplins to try and get all the bits needed for the relay mod in case that would help... Got to the car and quickly realised it's almost certainly what everyone said it would be! 😳 The small live wire going into the solenoid looks very toasted, but I think worse is that the little post it connects to is very loose! Didn't fiddle too much as I was worried it would come out! 😳 Couldn't check it was this as the car started every time! - Typical! How is this post fixed onto the body of the solenoid? Is it the solder that has come loose? and stupid question number 2 is it possible to get special heat resistant wire so that I can replace the crispy looking section? Thanks for all the help! p.s. battery was at 12.6V after standing for a week and 14.3V with engine running. How do i test the voltage at the solenoid end - I couldn't get sensible readings? (but it was starting so only cranking for a second) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozz Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 IMHO the fixing of these terminal posts is cr*p. All the torque applied on tightening (or loosening) the nut is taken by the soldered joint. One of mine was loose so I resoldered it and then secured it with JB weld. Seems to have done the trick. Bozz McLaren Orange and Black 1.6SS 6 Speed here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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