Myles Posted March 18, 2006 Posted March 18, 2006 OK, I've got to the point where I want to start the engine for the first time after the winter post-prang rebuild. The fuel pump doesn't fire. I've checked the fuse and the inertia switch and have found that both are OK but there is no power at either. I would have expected there to be 12V there. I don't know what to check next. FWIW, the engine turns over on the starter OK and the immob does what I would expect. It's an Emerald'd k-series byw. I'm absolutely in the sh*t with this one - I'm having to drive 640 miles a weekend to get to the car and it must be on the road next w/e. Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Edited by - Myles on 19 Mar 2006 13:44:40
EFA Posted March 18, 2006 Posted March 18, 2006 Myles, The fuel pump power is suoolied from a relay in the MFU which is driven by a "fule pump drive" signal with an MBE and probably memes. "Fule pump signal is only present when the crank sensor gets an input (i.e. engine turning) Check the power at the fule pump when cranking the engine. If still no power and an EU2 engie, check the coil and crank sensor plugs are not interchanged on the loom. This is an easy error. If it still does not work, call me. 07710 526739 K2 RUM - The 7 in front of you is a DIESEL
Myles Posted March 18, 2006 Author Posted March 18, 2006 Thanks Arnie - I've moved it along a little. I do get power at the fuel pump fuse for a few seconds when the ECU first turns on - and I can trace this as far as the inertia switch. I don't seem to get it at the tank though - which leads me on to my next ignorant question... The fuel pump - that *is* the jobby in the side of the tank which has a two-pin plug, yes? The fuel-level gubbins is the stuff in the top of the tank, ain't it? Frustration and fading light is leading me to stupid mistakes. Arse. Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com
Mike Molloy Posted March 18, 2006 Posted March 18, 2006 Looking at the circuit diagram it goes: Gnd Fuel pump Inertia cut-out switch Fuse 13 Grey Engine Plug P9 (YG wire) MRFU Output Plug P5 (Output to Fuel Pump) Which I assume connects to MRFU Output Plug P3 (Fuel Pump Relay Power supply) Supply From Vehicle Loom (looks like a spade connector on the diagram) Engine Loom Power Feed (Purple wire to spade) Fuse 14 Brown wire to Battery +ve (or in your case to the FIA switch) Just keep checking each node in the chain with your DVM and somewhere along the line the 12V will go AWOL. I suspect the MRFU!
Mark Durrant Posted March 18, 2006 Posted March 18, 2006 Myles If your car is EU2 it is easy to get the plugs for the crank sensor and the coil the wrong way round. I know because it happened to me 😳 Mark D Comp Sec
Myles Posted March 18, 2006 Author Posted March 18, 2006 Thanks Mike - up 'early' tomorrow and back on the case. Beer now though. Mmmm.. EU3. Everything seems to work except the pump at the mo. Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com Edited by - Myles on 18 Mar 2006 18:53:19
EFA Posted March 18, 2006 Posted March 18, 2006 Myles The initial power at the fuse tells you the ECU is sending the output to the MFU as expected. The ECU is therefore not getting a crank signal if the pump does not run continuously when cranking the engine. Do you have software for an Emerald so you can view the crank speed signal at the ECU on a PC as you can with MBE? K2 RUM - The 7 in front of you is a DIESEL
Mike Molloy Posted March 18, 2006 Posted March 18, 2006 It does sound a little like waht used to happen to me when the immobiliser passively armed and I forgot to disarm it before trying to start the engine. It would fire and run for a second or two and then die when the MEMS realised it wasn't getting the code from the immob. In a normal Rover tin-top the immob disables the crank as well so the engine shouldn't turn over or start. Have you got the Emerald set up to send the correct MEMS code? Has anything changed since you last had it all working? Maybe the shunt disturbed the wiring between the Emerald and MEMS?
mav Posted March 18, 2006 Posted March 18, 2006 He does not hear the pump prime, let alone it fire. Suggested running a wire out to the pump form the battery to check the pump is still working. By-passed the MFU this afternoon I think, and still no pump. I have heard the pumps can go dikkie if left out of petrol for an extended period...
Area Representative Nick Chan Posted March 18, 2006 Area Representative Posted March 18, 2006 Mav, This sounds just like the problem Cookie7 had when we on the way to Le Mans a couple of years ago. Despite being running for a couple of hours, it refused to run when we stopped for the first loo break. AA tried a direct feed from the battery to the pump but it wasn't having any. Turned out that a full reset of the system was required with the battery disconnected completely (both postive and negative terminals) for a while and the battery removed from the key fob as well for several minutes to ensure the fob was fully discharged by pushing the fob buttons without the battery in it. Resetting the immobilers (whatever the standard way is to reset a K series immobiliser) was necessary and then the car started straight away - after Cookie had come back home to change cars to his Elise and also bought the Emerald as he thought the standard one was faulty.... HTH Nick Now the Orange HPC - A 2.0 VX - 😬
Myles Posted March 18, 2006 Author Posted March 18, 2006 Arnie - yep, I have the Emerald SW and a lappy - but as MAV says, the voltage is going nowhere. FWIW, I did check the immob status in the Emerald - and it was entirely happy. Being as I do now see a priming pulse at the fusebox, it sounds like I just need to chase it down the line tomorrow morning - the car has been through the mill (crashed, stripped (loom left in place), dragged around the country, rebuilt - and it's quite likely a wire has been tweaked. It's a bugger having to work outside on my own -makes tracing continuity etc. a real pain. Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com
mav Posted March 18, 2006 Posted March 18, 2006 If you were closer, I'd quite happily lend you a hand...
Myles Posted March 18, 2006 Author Posted March 18, 2006 I will be closer at about 4:30PM tomorrow. The 7 will still be where it is now (albeit 18" lower...) Thanks anyway. Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com
Myles Posted March 19, 2006 Author Posted March 19, 2006 Well, for the benefit of others... 😳 There are two identical two-pin connectors in the rear loom near to the fuel pump. One of them is for the fog-light... Now, a poor-workman... etc. - but I'd have thought that they'd have used connectors with different keys so that you couldn't possibly mix them up - but nope... Oh well - thanks for all the help. That's a couple of lessons learned. Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com
Nifty Posted March 19, 2006 Posted March 19, 2006 Glad you're sorted *thumbup* Did make me chuckle. It reminded me of the number of times I had my rear offside light wiring off and on and off and on because I couldn't get the lights to work correctly when I rebuilt mine. It turned out that I'd connected the live to the wrong bullet but it was the only one I consistently put back on the same terminal whilst changing all the others ❗ ❗ 😬 😬 Idiot ❗ ❗ 😬 Keep off the straight and narrow 😬
Tony Whitley Posted March 19, 2006 Posted March 19, 2006 I don't see your problem Myles. You don't need a rear fog light so leave it as it is and voila, an extra anti-theft device Who would think of switching on the fog light to start a car
Myles Posted March 19, 2006 Author Posted March 19, 2006 Who would think of switching on the fog light to start a car Oh, about half a dozen dozy drivers on the M6 in clear conditions today.. Clearly not the young girl on Provisional plates that I met coming the other way as I entered Edinburgh at night - she hadn't quite mastered the art of using any lights at all.... 😳 Project Scope-Creep is live... Alcester Racing 7's Equipe - 🙆🏻™ Alcester-Racing-Sevens.com
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