neil.cavanagh Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I'm thinkng about installing a 160bhp Trophy K engine into my '03 SV. This is the VVC engine... Currently I have a 1.8 140bhp x-power cheesblock. What will I need to carry out the change? I believe the VVC engine needs different engine mounts. Does this apply to an SV. It has also been said that I'll need to extensivly modify the wiring loom. Does anyone know what this will entail, and how long it will take/cost? thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CageyH Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Why not just visit someone like DVA power or Hellier, and get an upgrade done to give you an extra 20 bhp and save the hassle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Neil, the eng mounts are the same across 1.8 VVC & non VVC. It is well worth checking out what DVA could do for you with the same investment on the VVC for your stock SS engine. Once you've got an emerald anythings possible 😬 😬 (with deep pockets) Make sure you choose the EU3 VVC Trophy spec as it is the only VVC with 158ps format. You'll benefit from uprated pistons, mainshells and large port and valve head. But using the std ECU you'll forever be limited to 158ps. A solid cam conversion on this engine retaining the std head and bottom end, Jenvy's and good exhaust should liberate 190bhp +.. the figures go up. I would do a little more homework first across DVA options against the VVC Trophy. anxiously waiting for my new 2.3 SV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil.cavanagh Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 Guys, I've looked into the DVA route, another 20bhp would cost be £2K+ (emerald, head work, cams etc)Where-as a trophy should be able to be installed for £1K net. I'm looking to get a nice reliable increase in power where I can sell the bits on later for not much of a lose as I hope to go for a duratec install for the big power in 12-24 months time. So, anyone know anything about the loom issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Ok... so its VVC then. Re. the loom... what EU loom have you at the moment... EU3 twin plug ECU or EU2 single? I have the Rover VVC eng loom drawings. If you've got the EU3 non VVC loom its pretty straightforward. The engines are identical except for the cam timing which varies with oil pressure. You'll basically need the 3 x VVC plugs and ECU pin outs that attach to the VVC oil control mechanism on the head next to the timing cover. I'll would also check to ensure that the VVC ECU pin outs match the non-VVC EU3 ECU pin outs. Remember.. you'll need to have the VVC ECU recoded to your 3AS unit. anxiously waiting for my new 2.3 SV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Neil, Dave 21 has just gone through this process. Give him a shout. He will also be able to put you in touch with someone who knows a thing or two about doing these conversions (wiring etc) , and I'm not referring to the person who did his! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delbert Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Neil, Re the DVA route I thought it was £2.4k for an extra 45bhp plus a rolling road The VVC is 160 for a grand thats +20 bhp, has sommit changed since we last spoke????? Freelance Ferret sexer and general sloth for hire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 p.s. the trophy has proven to be the strongest and most reliable engine of the lot that i've owned. 14k miles since august without a hiccough. the only thing that let me down was the propshaft (oh and fuel pump). I have some reference info in what you need to buy (which trophy - there are 2 kinds of EU3 Trophy with subtle differences) and what/how/who to sort wiring loom out with. You aren't the only person to be considering at the moment so i'm trying to sort out a little working party to buy a few and fit them in succession, including sorting a batch of looms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 The bhp figure isn't really comparing apples with apples. the 160 engine has a lower rev limit, is under less stress and is a good base for future DVA work, so your investment isn't wasted. it would give you a tough bottom end and a big valve head ready for future power hunting and in the mean time, you get some more horses to play with. it is nice and torquey as well compared to my previous higher revving engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil.cavanagh Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 Timbo, I have a EU3 twin plug ECU.... Having the wiring diagrams to compare of 140 bhp EU3 1.8 and EU3 Trophy engine would be great. Mav, I have naturally been 'talking' to Dave about this! Del, K03 kit (gives 160bhp on 1.8) is £1550 plus £350 fitting... for which you are getting some porting work, emerald and cams.... so I reckon I can get more bang for my buck from a trophy, and as Dave says its character will be really nicely suited to the road.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Err.. I wouldnt go the K03 kit, it is obsolete, the K13A kit will get you where you want to be for a lot less money... oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 But - given the option of buying a trophy engine or working on a standard engine, what would your choice be and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I installed a trophy engine in my 7 from new in 2001. I sourced the engine/loom/ecu and got Caterham to modify the loom to suit the car. They charged £100 for this service and it worked perfectly from day one (which was fortunate as day 1 was 1 day before the SVA!!). If Caterham aren't interested in doing the wiring mod then perhaps go straight to MES. The smokiest ECU is the first Trophy 160 version in the MGF (not TF or ZR) as this never had to be type approved, it was a sort of dealer fit option. The part I bought was an NNN000100 RRP £200. The only problem with this version for the MGF was that they fitted an extra oil temp sensor under the oil filter, this two element sensor was used for the dash oil temp gauge and for an over temp ignition retard which kills the performance if the oil gets too hot. The sensor is really big and will hit the road in a 7. I just blanked the hole and left the sensor tied up in a cool location! If you need any detailed tips, send me a blatmail. BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackb_ms Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 To add a bit more... I'm going to keep the VVC an fit some direct to head TB, with an emerald I should get around the 200bhp mark. The Emerald and rolling road session would be about £1K The TBs are from the Exige Jack Emily, The Very Yellow 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Bob - sounds like there are 2 of us then.... Mine was a 2003 Trophy without the extra sender - apparently the extra sender is still in the TF but not the other models for some reason - something to do with the likelihood of poorer cooling due to location maybe? £100 sounds about right - they will do the mod if you ask nicely and have the right loom originally. Jack's is the original style VVC engine btw... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Jack, With due respect, 200BHP is probably wishful thinking on the stock VVC engine with just TBs amd Emerald. If your head is a *good* one you may see 190BHP. You'll need a bit more area under the lift curve of the cams to make that sort of HP. The exhaust cam is ony 252 degrees with limited lift and the inlet cam even when fully extended has less area under the curve than the stock VHPD cams. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Oily - to revert to earlier question. Given the choice - you'd prefer a 160 as a base engine for upgrades rather than a std 1.8, yes? And could you give a brief summary as to WHY? (people keep asking me exactly what the difference is with my std trophy engine and i can't sensibly answer). Also re the 2 different types of trophy 160? whas the difference? Cheers as ever. D21P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Dave, It depends on where you are going with it and the difference in price. A 160 engine has a better head casting/bigger valves and thicker ring lands which toughen the pistons somewhat so it can be tweaked to around 190-195 easily just with bolt ons. A base engine will need forged pistons and much head work to do the same. OTOH a base 1800 can match the VVC 160 with just head work, cams/verniers and 52mm TB. As the basis for a 200BHP+ engine it probably cheaper to use a base engine and buy a 2nd hand VVC head since most of the VVC bits will be binned. Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Dave - thanks! I think that answers a lot of the questions that I've been asked over the recent bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 No relevent tech issues just wanted to say my 2001 car has the EU3 VVC Trophy engine in. It had not been used for over a month, but started first time and ran like a dream on Tue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry21p Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 ok - that's 3 of us so far.... who did your loom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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