Red SLR Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 I know there are a few out there - what is the conversion process? Any specific problems? Does the chassis need changes? Cheers Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 think they use the busa engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Plant Posted June 19, 2004 Share Posted June 19, 2004 The principal problem is the cost of the 'busa engine these days I reckon an R1 conversion could be interesting.... Martin www.caterhamblackbird.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Molloy Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Super7 Cars Inc in Canada do an interesting line in Hayabusa powered sevens. The offset drive system looks a quite clever solution to extreme prop angles. www.super7cars.com BTW A GSX1300R *is* a Hayabusa... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bare Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Yes they do.. Local to Me.. Problem is it's a lovely 'track' setup but basically 'dumb' onna street. Little to no torque, a clutch that is overcoming inertia in a vehicle at least twice it's design weight, Noise that Identifies the Car to each and every Constable within a 2 mile radius.. kinda takes the 'sport' right out of it.. as does the pricing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted June 20, 2004 Author Share Posted June 20, 2004 I have driven a few bike powered 7 esq cars in the past - always been quite impressed. The main attraction of the GSX-R1300 is the supercharger kit that I can get. Approx £2500 for the conversion and 350bhp at 11.000 rpm. I would prob keep the rev limit to 9500 and would get about 300bhp ish. Torque is similar to a K series running DTHTBs. My goal is 700bhp/ton so I cant think of any other engine that can give this sort of power in such a small package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanT Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Little to no torque This has been debunked several times already on these forums. Bike-engined cars have bags of torque at the driven wheels, which is where it matters. It's at the flywheel where they have relatively little torque but that problem vanishes as soon as the gearbox works its magic 😬 (I think I proved a while ago that a Blackbird has the same amount of torque at the rear wheels as a standard 2.0VX ... and that's in a significantly lighter car). Also a myth that the clutch is a problem (have you driven one for more than a couple of hours?). Even when it does go, it's cheap and a piece of cake to change. I know, I've done it myself. Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Plant Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Well done Ian, I knew I could rely on you to pop up and put matters straight. Martin www.caterhamblackbird.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Yup well said Ian, it kinda gets boring the same old arguments about bike engines from people that have never even driven / seen one, and who cant work out that torque at the flywheel means jack (if they didnt have lots of torque at the wheels they wouldnt accelerate so bloomin quickly!). Also the clutch isnt working as hard as you'd first imagine because the gearing is about 50% lower in a BEC so less slippage is required to get away, and also no big sports / touring bike is designed to just carry a single passenger, so add the kerb weight of a bike plus two passengers and a bit of luggage and you arent too far off the kerb weight of a BEC. Simon, beware considering the big power supercharger / turbo cars though, from what Ive heard of the TTS Supercharger conversion at least, there are a few problems with it and they currently dont recommend it for track use, at least at the moment although it has to be said its still fairly early days with it so they might iron out the bugs. Chris Edited by - ChrisG on 20 Jun 2004 21:19:19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phelpsa Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 Check out the BEC section in www.locostbuilders.co.uk Should bring up some info. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted June 20, 2004 Author Share Posted June 20, 2004 Chris G - cheers, need to do a lot of planning yet but my end goal is for something around 450kg, with 300bhp. Preferably using an engine that has not been tried in a Caterham before. I dont think anyone has a Busa S/C 7 yet?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Molloy Posted June 20, 2004 Share Posted June 20, 2004 450kg + 300bhp? Sounds like you need a Formula Palmer Audi car! 😬 IMHO the beauty of bike power is that you get an off-the-shelf engine package combining light weight with very high specific output (e.g. a GSXR750 is knocking on 200bhp/litre). The price for this cutting edge engine technology is very reasonable if it comes from a scrap bike. HOWEVER - as soon as you start trying to extract more ponies the costs go stratospheric (this assumes you want the engine to last more than 20 seconds...) Just look at the price for NA upgrade packages from the tuners involved in bike drag racing. 5 grand + VAT gets you a solid 200bhp. If you *really* need 300+bhp, check out the RST V8 (see http://freespace.virgin.net/seven.workshop/v8.html ). A mere 15K to you sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvhea11 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 hi folks, >>Ian - for the sake of interest please can you repost how you proved "that a Blackbird has the same amount of torque at the rear wheels as a standard 2.0VX " ? many thanks M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanT Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Go HERE for the original thread. In summary, a 2.0VX has around 45% more torque at the flywheel than a Blackbird but the Blackbird has around 45% (sometimes higher) shorter gearing. Easy to then see how the torque is brought to roughly the same values at the driven wheels. Ian. Edited by - IanT on 21 Jun 2004 09:37:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Elizabeth Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 HOWEVER - as soon as you start trying to extract more ponies the costs go stratospheric Not always - if you know where to look ! A crafty way of higher bhp is to check out the sidecar forums. You can often pick up "last years" tuned engines for a reasonable price. And being race engines they are going to be well built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 RST V8 is not my cup of tea and has been done. I want something with boosty goodness :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahey Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 What about a Blackbird engine for the rear wheels & a fireblade engine for the fronts? Don't reckon it's ever been done before but also probably impossible. Would be interesting though!! Another option for good power to weight could be a Honda VTEC or toyota VVTi engine with a supercharger. Plenty of kits available if you can get someone to fit the engine to the car. You would be looking at an easy 300bhp but would poss struggle to keep to 450kg. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Molloy Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Quote: "being race engines they are going to be well built" AND thrashed to within an inch of their life before being sold on to some mug punter... How much is a 250bhp 'Busa from Powertec? Big $$$? The double engine solution (a la Z-Cars) is an interesting one (e.g. a pair of R1 lumps), but the end reault is a bit unwieldy. Talking of FPA, Richard Smith at Westfield mentioned the VW lump in their XTR4 is "tuneable" from 180 to ~300bhp merely by plugging in your laptop and pressing a few keys. I'd guess the longevity is compromised over about 250bhp, but for a trackday toy that shouldn't be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 Will the audi unit fit - I thought it was too tall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisG Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 A mate of mine is flogging his twin ZX9 engine'd Westie if you want to take that route, its a nice car with all the trick bits on it, and its had a lot of work done to it to make the transfer box etc much more reliable than when it came out of Z Cars doors, bargain R500 equalling mad performance for £15k. clicky click Chris Edited by - ChrisG on 21 Jun 2004 16:21:02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Elizabeth Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 AND thrashed to within an inch of their life before being sold on to some mug punter As opposed to buying a secondhand bike engine that has been thrashed and crashed ! Most teams run multiple engines, so you can pick up hardly used "spares". Fair point however. The only way to guarantee a clean engine is to buy new from a breaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Plant Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 There are very few if any riders who can thrash a Blackbird or Hayabusa bike on the road and live to tell the tale and neither lend themselves to track use. Hence either is a very safe second hand buy. Martin www.caterhamblackbird.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerush Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 i have to agree with you there martin... oh btw a 460kg busa powered car is mental to drive.... cheers dave.c busa rush... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Molloy Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Buying an engine from a crashed bike is probably OK provided: a) the crankcases haven't been smashed, and b) it hasn't been left running in a horizontal position and suffered oil starvation. Hopefully on a 'bird the lean angle detector should prevent that. Always dodgy buying something from a breaker though... OK there is a c) in that I'd be a bit squeamish hearing about the possibly sorry state of the rider... Wouldn't wish a bike smash on anyone (been there, done that). ☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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