Miff Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 I dropped my car into Caterham Midlands for it's 12k service last week (roadsport/vhpd/wet sump). The only problem I had noticed was the idle speed had gone up to 1500rpm. Apparently the problem is the head gasket (failure). The coolant and oil temps have all been fine, no mayo in the coolant etc. Apparently there was some oil/coolant emulsion in the oil breather bottle which gave it away. a: does this sound right? b: why should a head gasket fail after less than 12k miles? Edited by - miff on 17 Jan 2004 13:04:34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Walker Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 A bit oil emulsion in the breather bottle is quite normal and does not instantly indicate a failed head gasket neither does a 1500 rpm tick over. The VHPD idles around 1200 normally any increase could just be a stuck IACV. I would removce the IACV and strip and clean it internally, carb cleaner is very effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miff Posted January 17, 2004 Author Share Posted January 17, 2004 interesting, it failed the sva 'cos of a duff idle bypass valve, i hope they aren't stripping down the engine for no reason, i will tackle them on monday about this, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted January 18, 2004 Leadership Team Share Posted January 18, 2004 Mines occasionally exhibits a bit of oil / water emulsion in the catch tank cap also - but definately no head gasket problem. I've put it down to condensation inside the catch tank (ali Mocal jobbie ) creating enough water to cause the deposits. Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miff Posted January 18, 2004 Author Share Posted January 18, 2004 I thought it to be condensation too, but they have said it was full up (I haven't routinely checked it myself so cannot be certain of how full), a full bottle would seem a bit much just for condensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted January 18, 2004 Leadership Team Share Posted January 18, 2004 If it's pushing that much emulsified oil into the catch tank then surely you'd see it somewhere else - dip stick, filler cap, etc? I'd certainly be tempted to remove the cam cover and have a good look. Is there a chance there's been more water than condensation getting into the catch tank - it's the wet time of year of course Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Get it out of there and get a second opinion . The catch tank maybe full of good oil - which is quite normal if you overfill the dry sump system . Lotus 7 Club Speed Champion 2003 South Wales Area Organiser C7 TOP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miff Posted January 18, 2004 Author Share Posted January 18, 2004 starting to think the same, anyone know anyone in the midlands who could give me a good second opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheds Moderator Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 A rover dealer will do a pressure test and check for exhaust gases in the coolant. Definitive answer, probably cost about 50 pounds, worth it for peace of mind. When mine went I unscrewed the plug leads and spun the engine. Water squirted across the workshop... ☹️ 🙆🏻 . No need for a pressure test there. A crude test is, as a friend of mine put it, "take off the coolant cap and then rev the b****locks off it, if it spits all the water out you have a problem" but this only works if it's really gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miff Posted January 19, 2004 Author Share Posted January 19, 2004 Spoke to caterham mids today. they had already done several pressure, compression and play-doh tests which had confirmed the head gasket as the cause. They took the head off today and the gasket had come 'unstuck' (their term) and allowed water to creep along into the oil system. They also said there was some pitting on the cylinder head which now needs to be skimmed. Apparently this is a not uncommon finding in K series heads that play up. Anyone know whether this is BS? cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadership Team SLR No.77 Posted January 19, 2004 Leadership Team Share Posted January 19, 2004 If I recall the pitting is usually caused by not using 100% propylene glycol in the cooling system? Stu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miff Posted January 19, 2004 Author Share Posted January 19, 2004 having been on a few sites this pm, it would seem coolant may be the likely culprit. Bit of a pisser seeing as I invested in expensive stuff when I built the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miff Posted January 28, 2004 Author Share Posted January 28, 2004 arrrhggggg! they have now put back together the newly skimmed head, new head gasket etc and the problem with the high tickover is still present! they now want the thing to send it to PTP for "further tests". maybe I shouldn't be surprised, I mean two weeks isn't very long to take apart the wrong piece of the engine and put it back together. Any views anyone, should I have it off them and never darken their doors again? (very tempting). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonbell Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 another k-series head gasket ites the dust I find it amazing that a major car company can have so many head gaskets fail on a particular type of engine and not see it as a problem. Maybe all the manufacturers have the same problem but they are better at keeping it quiet Have engine.......need car I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 The throttle body or air metering unit is duff , or the ecu is having a bad day , or the idle screw needs adjusting or the IACV is duff , a diagnostic test should resolve it . The engine wont rev high by itself - it will only do what its told ! The mayonaise would not be related to high tickover - these are 2 different issues ......*if* you had a blown head gasket then that has been replaced . Now you have a fault that is creating a high idle speed . I woudnt go in a say to them that they replaced the wrong bit ! . You could consider taking ot to someone else for a second opinion if you are not feeling very secure with this garage ? Lotus 7 Club Speed Champion 2003 South Wales Area Organiser C7 TOP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miff Posted February 14, 2004 Author Share Posted February 14, 2004 Finally resolved. They took the car to PTP, conveniently round the corner, problems were: worn out distributor cap, rotor arm and ht leads, also iacv was 'faulty' they have now replaced all of the above for a large sum and the car is fine. My wallet is not. trouble is, not having diagnostic kit or enough knowledge i have to just trust them, slightly disconcerting when large sums of cash involved ☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 are you refering to total cost inc head gasket replacement? If not , then the other parts you list should not cost large amounts of cash. how much is a lot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miff Posted February 15, 2004 Author Share Posted February 15, 2004 £1168 including 12k service, the majority of the costs above the service were for labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Plato Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 Bloody hell The head gasket is 7 hours labour tops to replace , 4 hours labour for an experienced mechanic . And a gasket is £30 , the ivac can be cleaned with solvent or replaced for £35 , and the dizzy and leads are £45 tops even using Magnecor . Plus 15 minutes labour to fit . I'm surprised a company cant diagnose a worn out IVAC , dizzy and leads . Even bigger problems if the bill is that size . You should have got a second opinion whan it was suggested to you .... Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 Dave, Don't forget the labour is about £42 +vat per hour!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caterhamnut Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 Miff I mention this not to upset you in any way. We had a head gasket blow (for real - rather then imaginary like yours) 2 years ago - had it replaced at the same time as we had the last big service done (24,000 miles) so he did the cam belt as well. This was NOT with Caterham obviously, but a little garage in Taunton, recommended to us by a fellow Blatchatter. Total bill £480 incl. bits, labour, VAT etc. I am deeply suspicious about garage charges. There is a HUGE amount of knowledge on this forum - it is always my first place of call, and has always solved any problems we have had. Better luck next time. The gutting thing for you was that you thought it did not sound right at the beginning of the process... ☹️ NEW Nurburgring Pictures posted here 55,000miles in 2.5 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyA Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 If you are in Leicester, another option (fot the future) is McMillan Motorsport or Team Parker - both have provided support for the Graduates, although Andy McMillan is at Bruntingthorpe, so you can test on circuit (for a fee) aswell before leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miff Posted February 16, 2004 Author Share Posted February 16, 2004 Will definitely not be using Caterham midlands again for anything unless I can possibly help it. To say I have lost confidence in them, especially since the last few posts have gone up is an understatement. To answer the above, labour was a large part of it, £430 inc vat, the 12k service was £330. Just feeling a bit pissed-off with myself now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frying Pan Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Miff Sounds like you had a really rough deal ☹️ Have you thought of taking this up with Caterham's Management? Why not fire off a letter / e-mail to Simon Lambert (aftersales@caterham.co.uk) - I'm sure he'd much rather know about this than not... Also, according to the ad in Low Flying, a 12K service is £425 inc VAT Guy See some pictures of the build here. PBC and SVA complete - waiting for March 1st! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miff Posted February 16, 2004 Author Share Posted February 16, 2004 didn't include consumables in the service figure (oil, sump baffles etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now