Caterham Wet sump on Duratec - considered good?

[tomwood]

Hi all,

am interested to get peoples opinions on the wet sump currently fitted to my 2013 SuperSport R. Firstly, am I right in thinking its simply a rebranded raceline wet sump?

I've used the car about 3-4 times on track with this setup with no problems. The car is currently in standard form but I'm looking at an upgrade to R400 cams + throttle bodies and am wondering if I'm asking for trouble leaving it on the wet sump setup as is my current preference.

i know the k series without a dry sump was not recommended for track use but what is the current view with the Duratec cars? Is the wet sump arrangement on these better suited to light track use?

Tom

[ScottR400D]

'Light' track use? 

For me after running various race cars over the years, with and without dry sumps, I wouldn't be happy without a dry dump on a track car. 

Having said that I don't know how your sump is configured and how good it might be at retaining oil pick up. It might be OK but if it isn't even the occasional track use isn't going to be good. 

[ChrisC]

Hi Tom 

I think there are a lot of factors here to consider.   

From Scotts comments he would have you think it's essential, however I have never owned a dry sump car, and have done plenty of tack days and so far not blown anything up (yep). 

The factors I think are

1. The track, some tracks are going to cause you more problems than others.   I guess long high G corners are the things to avoid. 

2. Tyres, more grip mean more G 

3. Your ability to exploit the limits and high G.  Can you push the limits of your car in the corners. 

4, Oil system design. 

I have spoke to a few Caterham techs, and they where of the opinion the 420 had the dry sump for packaging reasons, i.e. it's fitted to justify the price increase over the 360 more than the owners need for it.   If that's true (or not) what we could be saying is the SuperSport R and the 360 R are cars that shouldn't be driven on the track, and I don't think that's the case, because your car would have already expired given your track activity. 

Finally how much faster will you be cornering given the extra power?   I suspect not much, after all "adding power makes you faster on the straights, subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere" is quote Colin Chapman quote.   

I am sure Raceline has the answer ;-)

[ScottR400D]

I'm not trying to convince anyone it's essential. It's not my problem and as I said, I don't know what the configuration of your wet sump is. It may be fine  

However, if the sump's not very well designed, you don't need to reach that high a sideways g to lose pick up. In any case you don't need to be a driving god to reach cornering g that could cause an issue. Even I can do that!

Notwithstanding all that, even a novice can reach high enough g under braking to cause an issue, so depending on the circuit, as said, it's not behind the bounds of possibility to have oil starvation issues. Many have, though I'm sure many don't or at least don't suffer immediately terminal issues. 

As for the 'packaging' question I don't know where that's from. Neither the 360 nor the 420 in either S or R spec come with a dry sump as standard. It's an optional extra just the same for either engine spec. It always was with the SS175 and R400D before the nomenclature changed. 

[ChrisC]

Sorry 420R is dry sump as standard 360 (R or S) and 420 S is wet 

[ScottR400D]

Yes, you're right, the R pack brings in the dry sump. It's an option for the S and the 360S and R. 

I still don't think that means it's any more necessary on the 420 than the 360. Just because the engine's producing less power doesn't make it less susceptible to loss of oil pressure. Which does support your theory that they're trying to justify, or create, price points. 

[tomwood]

Thanks for the thoughts so far guys, I suspected opinions may be divided.

when I said 'light use' what I should really have said is 'occasional'. The answers to Chris's questions mentions a lot of sense and if I'm honest, whilst not purporting to be any kind of driving god I'd have to answer as follows:

1) brands hatch, both configurations and Bedford autodrome thus far

2) exclusively CR500's so far, no slicks and don't intend to for the time being for reasons highlighted

3) I would have to say yes to this one, that's partly why I'm looking to upgrade the car after all. I'm not afraid to push in fairness

4) as said, but hopefully someone can confirm, I believe it's a raceline wet sump with a Cateham logo on it. They look identical externally. Unfortunately the pics on the caterham parts site don't show the internal design but the raceline website does and if I'm right then it's baffled internally to some extent via the compartments that are inside it. 

Back in 2013 when I built the car, the dry sum was an option on the SSR, it was standard fit back then on the R400.

you're right, I should call raceline for their view really shouldn't I.

anyone else got a view?

Tom

 

[ScottR400D]

Good idea to call raceline and perhaps mention Brands. Druids can be a killer.  

[John Vine]

Tom,

I've sent you a PM.

JV

[tomwood]

John, many thanks. BM sent in reply.