Graham Perry Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 Its time to upgrade my front brakes. Does anyone have any experience of either AP Calipers or the Alcon set that James Whiting does for the Seven ? I notice that all the quality four pot systems are now made of aluminium. Any idea roughly what each Caliper weighs, dare I assume under 3kg ? Do any of the systems require a change of master cylinder ? Don't worry about pads, thats another issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Dixon Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 Fitted James Whiting kit early last year. Well worth it.Always found the standard brakes on my 1.6 K series lacking. Whilst they worked they gave no confidence, little feel, car always felt it was braking from the rear. The James Whiting kit fitted with EBC Green pads has transformed the braking - now very progressive, lots of feel. I am now able to get the car's nose to dip under braking which it never used to do. Highly recommended and much cheaper than the full Caterham upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewartG Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 Just swapped to the AP Racing/Caterham big brakes which do require the big master cylinder to go with them. I didn't weigh them, the calipers seemed marginally lighter than standard but the discs were quite a lot heavier. I'd be surprised if there is an overall weight saving. Brakes are now better than before with less pedal travel and a better balance with the rear ones. The Alcon calipers are visually almost identical to the AP ones but have different piston sizes which allows the standard master cylinder to be retained, they also fit the standard discs so they're probably the lightest solution. The Alcons and APs use exactly the same pads but the AP discs are a bigger diameter so I assume their performance is slightly stronger. Be careful if you don't have standard Caterham wheels as there can be clearance problems with the APs but not the Alcons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 Eh? All roadgoing Superlights come with the AP front brakes and a standard master cylinder. A front hub/upright assembly complete with AP caliper and vented disk (no pads) weighed 8.888kg (as near as dammit :) when I built my car. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julians Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 I was thinking of doing this to my seven at some point in the coming year, but I was also thinking of replacing the old rear brakes with the fronts that would have just been replaced with the Ap stuff. Is this worthwhile, or should I just leave the rears as is. Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Russell Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 What about a handbrake? I know the under dash one is useless, but you do need one for the MOT. Unless you have very strange front callipers you may have a problem! Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted November 30, 2000 Author Share Posted November 30, 2000 Not a problem on my car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c7kjt Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 As with julians I was wondering if it would be possible to replace the current rear (drum!!) brakes with the current front discs/calipers and add 4pots to the front. Anyone have any experience of this? Kevin Thomas kevin.thomas@bigfoot.com www.c7kjt.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 Sorry Julian, no idea if this is possible (or whether there would be any benefit if you've already got the Sierra-based rear calipers/disks). You will need a handbrake for an MOT though (unless you have a very friendly MOT place...) so you need rear calipers which can be cable-operated. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 The brakes on my superlight are very impressive when up to temp, but from cold they are not that good, as I found out after having the car for 1 day...... But I have driven an 1800 Vx and that had ok brakes, but it is possible to tell the difference. What is the difference between the R500 brakes and the 1.6 Sl? Simon X777CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 Has anyone had experience with the Wilwood conversion from Rally Design. Looks good with Billet calipers available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Prior Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 My standard brakes on a '94 220bhp HPC can lock up AO32R's with no problem, and offer good progression up until that point. Which begs the question - if you can exceed the tyres' co-efficient of friction, when warm, on a dry road; why would you need uprated brakes except for repeated track use? At least I think mine are standard. Must have a look this weekend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Bees Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 I found that the 4-pot AP fronts gave a much better feel than the Sierra 2-pots, although it's possible that this could have been achieved just through pad selection. The RoadSport race cars run the standard 2-pot fronts so they must be up to the job. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Morris Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 Fitted AP system to Vaux car with std. cylinder. Big improvement over standard sytem for feel and initial bite. basically well worth the money £650. New calipers (black ones) are very much lighter than standard, however discs weigh a ton in comparrision so overall no weight saving. James kit sounds interesting as it uses std discs? and not the vented cast iron units supplied by AP. To be honest I don't think heat would be a problem on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 According to my trusty spring balance my AP front 4 pot calipers weigh about 4lb (less than 2kg), this is without pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 Graham, Alcon 4 pot calipers without pads :1942.4 grams STD caliper with pads :3768.5 grams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted December 1, 2000 Author Share Posted December 1, 2000 Hey guys I didn't expect anyone to seriously take off their calipers and weigh them ! Thanks anyway. I think I will have a word with James Whiting. Doing sprints the last thing I need is to cool my brakes using Vented discs, as then never get to temperature anyway. Perhaps I don't press the pedal hard enough. Anyway my current calipers are 5KG each so its a sensible weight saving to change them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted December 7, 2000 Author Share Posted December 7, 2000 The brakes turned up today. The Alcons are very well made and as light in weight as predicted. I have gone for the EBC 'Green stuff' pads as an experiment. If they don't prove soft enough I will try something else. One point to note for anyone considering these brakes is that they will only work with the standard Caterham (triumph spitfire sourced ?) discs and look too narrow for ventilated discs. I run the slightly larger and wider Triumph Vitesse/GT6 non-ventilated discs on my car and am having to get them turned down to 9 and a bit inches and made slightly narrower to fit the calipers. The whole set up looks very promising. The car is in a thousand bits at the moment for numerous other mods so don't expect any feedback on performance until the spring. I'm off to buy some dot 5 brake fluid........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Dixon Posted December 7, 2000 Share Posted December 7, 2000 Good luck, Graham, I think you will be impressed with the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.R. Posted December 8, 2000 Share Posted December 8, 2000 I am currently fitting the Willwood calipers to my car,they are very light 1.13 Kg without pads and cheap £89 + VAT. Only a simple mounting bracket needed. Graham - How much larger are the GT6 discs? (diameter + thickness) as it may be worth fitting them at the same time Also wouldnt it be cheaper to buy some standard discs rather than machine yours down - or swop them for mine! Edited by - J.R. on 8 Dec 2000 19:25:23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Gillet Posted December 8, 2000 Share Posted December 8, 2000 J.R., Wilwood less expensive than Alcon? By how much? "Only a simple mounting bracket needed.": is it a special bracket? available from which supplier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted December 11, 2000 Author Share Posted December 11, 2000 JR the GT6/Vitesse disc is 9.5 inches diameter but is quite a bit thicker. Sorry can't remember the thickness but it looks about half as thick again as the satndard Caterham one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 Graham, Shurely not DOT 5. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted December 11, 2000 Author Share Posted December 11, 2000 Ah ha, tell me more Peter I haven't been and got any yet, but you wouldn't have quetioned it if you didn't have your doubts ! Actually I may even use some AP Race fluid as thats not as expensive as some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelspeed Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 > Hey guys I didn't expect anyone to seriously take off their > calipers and weigh them ! Don't be silly, the AP calipers are in the spare room with most of the rest of the car, the standard cast iron calipers are in the loft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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