Fix the formatting and links of all the old blatchat posts

[anthonym]

I posted a large number of foreign blat routes all of which are now rendered useless and all the links broken. for example this one:

http://www.lotus7.club/forum/chitchat/blat-routes-france-sud-mont-ventoux-region-part-2-col-de-perty

which when fixed laboriously line by line should look something like this:

Blat Routes France Sud - Mont Ventoux region (Part 2) Col de Perty

This route is worth doing for everything EXCEPT the Col de Perty which is the objective. 
While quaint etc, the road surface is too bumpy to be fun. BUT most of the other roads to and from the location are fun in themselves
 
1026 28881 000.0 DEP 
1030 28884 3.0 ARR St Aurel delayed, lost my map! find tourist ofice and get overview map 
1055 28889 8.3 ARR Montbrun les Bains now a complete waste of fuel as the route is blocked beyond Sederon and have to return here so now 
1137 28914 33.9 DEP on D159 Aulan 7km THIS ROAD IS FUN and interesting a narrow gorge. 
1150 28922 40.9 ARR D542 end of diversion RIGHT for Auban sue Oveze 
1157 28925 44.4 ARR St Auban sur l'Oveze 
1200 28925 44.9 big white road sign, RIGHT to Col de Perty on D65 
1206 28929 48.8 DEP Montauban sur l'Oveze 
1219 28938 57.1 Top oc Col de Perty raining! 
1230 28943 62.5 ARR Laborel on D65 looking for D170 Right to Col St Jean find signs also for Sederon an follow these 
1239 28947 66.2 Col de St Jean 
1246 28950 69.7 ARR Eygalayes on D170 
1255 dep 1302 28956 75.8 ARR Sederon 
1315 28966 85.7 ARR Montbrun 
1327 28974 93.8 ARR Sault D 94.2 AT Pharmcie 15L remaining 17.31litres accepted for 23.71 @1.370/L 
1505 nearing Sisteron 68711 33.3 D4085 RIGHT 68712 34.5 PEAGE A51 NICE 68803 47 litres Anthony 

Edited by - anthonym on 9 Oct 2009 17:12:02 
Edited by - anthonym on 9 Oct 2009 23:46:29 
Edited by - anthonym on 28 Mar 2010 20:15:02 
Edited by - anthonym on 11 Sep 2011 19:06:56

- See more at: http://www.lotus7.club/forum/chitchat/blat-routes-france-sud-mont-ventoux-region-part-2-col-de-perty#sthash.AFSyfbmp.dpuf - See more at: http://www.lotus7.club/forum/chitchat/blat-routes-your-forum-need-you#comment-2142500

[Jonathan Kay]

Replied here.

It would be great if you fixed these.

Jonathan

[Golf Juliet Tango]

*deep sigh* All those links, virtually all lost. Much else, too. It pains me.

[Mort]

(No biting tongue emoticon available.)

 

[spiderlane]

Is this an acknowledged issue? Frankly, having lost the referential integrity of the data (links from one post to another) and most of external URLs means that the data migration was a failure in my view. Are we ever likely to get this essential information back again?

Cheers

Mark

[Jonathan Kay]

I think the answer was that it won't be, I can't find the discussion.

The furthest we explored it is here.

Jonathan

[sjmmarsh]

Anthonym

copy the formatting from the old page: http://213-04.com/t.asp?id=177854 The links will be harder to get hold of but at least they are still there and working!

Steve

[Shaun_E]

I'm sorry to say that it is unlikely we will ever get this info back. It was an error made in the data migration but not spotted until a few days after go live at which point it was too late to go back and redo the migration.

The migration was hugely complex and trying to maintain links to pages within the site would have required a multiple stage upload that would have added to the cost immensely. The site search is, despite the views of some, pretty good and can find most things.

Links to external sites are another matter and these should have been brought across. We don't know why they didn't work but it was related to formatting differences between the old site and the new one. In theory we could go back and fix these as we still have the data, but in reality it is probably more cost than it is worth as many of the links are now out of date or are dead links.

We appreciate the efforts people make to bring useful content to the site and hope that continues. 

Shaun

[tbird]

It would be a bit of a faff but is the old website still complete and backed up somewhere, could it not be re published behind a member login for reading and searching only, shouldn't require much maintenance , then if we were looking for something that turned out to have a broken link it would be possible to go to the old website and either read it there or indeed port the info accross, if all the members did that when searching I am sure the important data would be ported accross fairly quickly. Just a thought

 

Tim

[Mort]

Cracking idea Tim.  We could also use it as an additional search facilty if we can't find what we're looking for on this forum.

[anthonym]

Steve any update on our chat? Recall I offered resources for the old site to be put online. 

Very happy to have met you at Donington.:-)

The internal links may be fixable with search and replace.

Anthony

 

[anthonym]

actually. wearing a different hat now. Loss of that formatting. What has been lost are all the newline codes separating lines. Unix and Windows use different hexadecimal characters to designate an end of line. 

It is tempting to wonder if the old system was on a different operating system to the new one. If the new one is online I would hazard a guess it's unix. I'd also hazard a guess based on its age, that old blatchat was based on Windows. Importing old text from one such system to another different system will often lose all the line ending characters, or if vice versa, lack them where needed, in both cases this rather basic error leads to all text being run together with no distinction between lines. 

Now then, IF any of this is true, it may be that the hex characters of the old system are still there and can be search and replaced (in hex not ascii) so instantly reformatting everything.

The internal links are all broken because the old site address (blatchat) is different from the new one (lotus7) and using the exact ascii format it MAY be possble to restore ALL the old internal links again with search and replace, but this time in ascii not hex.

Such actions take mere minutes or even seconds to run. Getting them right a bit longer.

As usual we have no transparency so I am left to guess.

If anyone understands what I am talking about please compare notes, if you don't then click the link below to Wikipedia.

 Anthony

p.s. here's some guidance:

 The actual codes representing a newline vary across operating systems, which can be a problem when exchanging text files between systems with different newline representations.

[Roger Ford]

Apparently Barry has (or had) all the old Blatchat data complete with formatting and working links.

Charles and I offered to tidy it up and present it through a new search engine (something like the LowFlying archive search I developed) but the management team were scared that we might try to make money out of it somehow, and preferred to "keep control" by leaving it unused and unloved in a locked electronic drawer somewhere.  Such a shame. I've given up pestering them now but perhaps one last attempt:

MT, if you're listening, we can use the same server as is being used for the LF archive. The development effort won't be large, and it won't cost the club a penny. Please allow me to do it.

[Jonathan Kay]

Total support from me for Roger's proposal.

Jonathan

PS: Spent many hours on 10s and 13s and scripts to clean them.

[anthonym]

I think an underlying problem over the last ten years is the MT being scared. 

As a club we should fix this. So a bit of transparency about the perceived risks both personally and to the club would help us make a start.

Whether it was the beginning I am not sure, but it certainly came to light when counsel's opinion was sought. Counsel being what they are (careful), fear followed.

 

 

haha! Jonathan, such joys ! :-)

[Shaun_E]

Hi Roger - agree we can use the same server as the BC Archive. We have a backup of the old site so it's all possible. The only likely difficulty is getting it copied to the new server as it is "quite large" :-). I understand you have a high bandwidth internet connection so if I can get you access to the source then maybe you can do the copy? My little 1.4MB/s link won't cut the mustard I'm afraid!

I've got quite a lot on at the moment but will try and find some time soon to take a look.

The reason for not allowing an individual to host this has less to do with "control" (although the MT are reluctant to let the data out of our hands) but more to do with what happens if the person hosting it gets fed-up, falls out with the club or walks under a bus - what do we do then? This is the primary reason the website is outsourced and the BC archive is on a club managed server.

Anthony - The MT aren't "scared" we're just taking a prudent approach on managing the club's resources - imagine the outcry if we put this facility in place and then it disappeared for reasons beyond our control! Like it or not, the world is a different place compared to when Blatchat first came into being - there are always threats the club has to face and the MT must take a prudent approach to all activities.

Shaun