R400 throttle body advice

[hufggfg]

Hello all,

 

Wanting to ask for the wisdom of the blatchat masses. I started a post on pistonheads, but hoping that people here have a bit more direct experience.

 

I've got a standard R400D (albeit with cat bypass). Last time out at Brands I tripped noise meters, so have now got a Raceco silencer to fit (2.5" bore).

 

I also want to upgrade to throttle bodies, both to get a bit more exciting noise (rather than just louder), and to improve power and particularly throttle response.

 

So the 2 options are:

 

Option 1 - Official Caterham Upgrade

Pros:

- Off the shelf proven product with known cost and easy install

- Makes car more easily saleable as it's an official upgrade

- Can get the carbon airbox with it to control noise for tracks

Cons:

- Generic map/generic solution (particularly as i'll be running a different exhaust from that which the map was designed with)

- Roller barrels probably not the optimal solution unless you're looking for absolute max power

 

Option 2 - Raceline 45mm butterflies with a "Track and Road" (the 2 Steves) custom map

Pros:

- Absolute custom map to get the best out of the engine both in a drivability and power sense.

- On the face of it looks slightly cheaper

Cons:

- I'd have to find someone to do the work (Unfortunately I don't have time myself)

- Somewhat unknown final cost (and we all know how these things escalate)

- Impact on value of the car (it's always going to be easier to sell a car with an "official Caterham" upgrade)

- Unknown noise impact, and solution will again have to be custom...

 

So, what do people think? Has anyone gone the custom route? Any other ideas?

 

Thanks!

 

[john aston]

Hi- already commented on PH thread but just to say that the RB conversion which Caterham Midland did for me was pricey but exceeded my expectations. Obviously I can't comment on alternatives but the difference in both power and response was extraordinary. The response is instant - and I mean instant, closest I've felt on an injected car to having two bloody great Webers slurping away - and the power increase feels more than the ten or fifteen bhp claimed.It feels a LOT more than that. The engine also starts and runs smoothly from cold - no need for heel and toeing at every stop to prevent stalling when cold. Noise is the best thing- sounds like a 70s F2 car (ish , OK ) and a lot of cracks and bangs on the overrun (which makes every trip a bit more of an occasion ). Economy is fine- it'll slurp if you welly it and sip if you don't.

[weeman]

(it's always going to be easier to sell a car with an "official Caterham" upgrade)

I'm not so sure about that? I would very much prefer a car mapped by the 'Two Steves' than one that had undergone the "Try that one Sir" treatment at CC.

 

I doubt that CC send out their 'Press' and 'Top Gear' cars with off the shelf mapping?

 

Generic versus Custom? I think the answer is in the question.

[hufggfg]

Thanks John, your experience with the upgrade is very much appreciated! You've definitely convinced me that I do want a set of throttle bodies, the question now is just which ones!

 

Martin - I entirely agree with you, but unforunately the nature of a market is often that it's not the informed minority that set the price, but the uninformed majority.

 

One other possibility is to get the CC upgrade, then at some point take it to the two Steves for a map.. clearly the most expensive route, but probably also the best of all worlds... (and I can think of it as 2 separate upgrades, so it might stave off upgraditis for a while longer 😬)

 

Edited by - hufggfg on 14 Feb 2014 10:55:21

[SLR No.77]

Ultimately that would be your best option. Keeping to Caterham "original" specification and upgrades will make the car more easy to sell and will also enhance the value. "Custom" tuned is desirable but will not add value. Sad but true.

 

Stu.

[weeman]

but unforunately the nature of a market is often that it's not the informed minority that set the price, but the uninformed majority.

 

Sorry to sound so argumentative, but I think in the world of Caterham 7's it's CC who determine how easily sold, a 7 is. Because they won't buy anything that strays from standard it takes away a sizeable chunk of the buying market. This does affect how easy it is to sell a car but I'm not convinced that it has much affect on the price.

 

I think your idea to separate your upgrades into two parts makes a great deal of sense.

In your position I'd seek Mssrs Greenalds and Pitchers opinions on how best to proceed. Be prepared for some straight talking though, especially from Mr P 😬

[SLR No.77]

It doesn't really matter who's in control of the price, the fact is simply that a car that is non-original specification or non-original-modified is more difficult to sell and will not gain value through the modifications. Been there done that. Take a look at historical used car adverts and you'll see a clear pattern, some fantastic cars, amazing specs, but often difficult to move on and at minimal financial return.

 

Stu.

[hufggfg]

Think it's probably a bit of both to be honest guys.

 

CC do things that way to try to keep residuals high for cars that have "official" parts, which is entirely understandable for a profit driven business.

 

There is also something in their approach that is helpful for the less informed buyer. If I buy a car that only has Caterham upgrades, I at least know that it's going to be roughly right, and I know Caterham will be able to solve any issues it has. If you buy an entirely custom car, your own level of knowledge and research needs to be much higher.

[Simon Owen]

What do we think the real difference in cost to complete & residual value would be 🤔

 

Assuming this is not ‘night & day’ I would be basing this decision on the preferred type of throttle body and which option would result in the nicest car to drive for the type of use you are looking for.

 

Whether you prefer roller barrels or butterflies I suspect will be down to personal preference, they are subtly different to drive in my experience.

 

Whatever you do a custom map would be an absolute given IMHO.

 

[hufggfg]

Hi Simon, from your experience, what are the differences in the way a butterfly and roller barrel drive?

 

I think i know, but would rather hear it from someone who actually has experience of both.