Apollo Fitting problem

[Midas]

Not having a good day!

 

I'm trying to fit the Apollo tank oil filter adaptor plate to the engine, and then feed the pipework through the alternator belt - but no matter how much I fiddle with pipe angles I'm coming up against the same problem

 

Not enough clearance between the alternator and the engine block to take the pipework (specifically the brass unions on the end of the pipes) .

 

With the original belt fully tensioned the two brass pipe to adaptor unions still foul on the body of the alternator, and also on the engine. I want to have at least a small amount of space to stop rubbing. Also, if the belt fails there is no way that it can be replaced without taking off the adaptor plate - no way of releasing the tension.

 

I've also removed metal from the engine rib as per the instructions on blatchat. I'm at a loss.

 

So:

 

Am I looking for perfection and is it just a case of 'they all do that' and the contact between pipe/engine/alternator is a 'characteristic'

 

Or do i get a longer alternator belt (any suggestions) although i have only a few mm til it hits the chassis rail.

 

Or do i have the 'wrong' too large alternator - it's the original.

 

Is it something to do with a VVC engine.

 

Confused of Bristol

[Grubbster]

I don't have an apollo any more but here is a link to the photo's I took when I fitted mine some years back. not sure if they will help or not.

[Dignity]

Hi Confused of Bristol,

My new alternator belt was smaller and made things a bit tight but I managed (Just).

Maybe try a longer belt?

 

You could have a spare belt strapped up by the apollo tank ready to slip on in an emergency?

Regards

Dignity

 

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

I have a VVC ........ but also SV chassis, so I could run my hoses horizontally under the alternator. Didn't like the idea of running them inside the alternator belt !

[Midas]

Thanks for the replies - Grubster I have looked at your helpful photos (and also Angus') before I started. the problem just seems to be that however I fiddle I cannot stop pipe to alternator contact!

[John Vine]

If you haven't already seen it, there's a lot of useful info here. (ETA that you probably have!)

 

When I fitted my Apollo (S3 1.8 EU2) way back in 2001 (copy of my LF article here), I found that the angle of the inboard hose was crucial, and that the best (only?) layout was with the two hoses pulled together as much as possible before they passed through the alt belt. I didn't have to remove any metal from the block though, and my alternator would swivel just enough to allow the belt to be replaced as required. I had to trial-fit the sandwich plate and hoses to the engine in order to get the best layout, and then tighten the unions in a vice on the bench.

 

Certainly there should be no contact between hoses and alt (as you say, you need enough of a gap to be able to slacken off the belt tension). In my case, the inboard pipe pressed hard up against the block, but that seemed to cause no problem.

 

If you have an S3, I doubt a longer alt belt would be an option as the alt body would very likely contact the chassis.

 

Do you have any pics of your installation?

 

JV

 

Edited by - John Vine on 26 Feb 2011 13:55:21

[Midas]

Thanks John, i have read Angus' notes and also have a copy of your own excellent article - but no amount of fiddling seems to be working. I can see no way of having the pipes through the belt, and having enough play to swing the alternator down after installation to let the belt be replaced. As it is they're all wedged in there.

 

I'll keep fiddling with the union angles but been at it for best part of two days and keep failing ☹️

 

 

[John Vine]

I'm assuming you have an S3? The clearance between the alt body and the chassis with a fully tensioned (new) belt is around 5mm or so (at least, it was on mine). This can reduce to almost nothing when adjusted to cater for stretch and wear in use. It sounds like you have the right belt -- I think the part no. is GMB50735, four grooves and five splines.

 

If you bought the Apollo as a kit from CC, I'm sure they would advise. Maybe your alt is different in some way.

 

JV

[Midas]

There are apparently four different lengths of alternator belt listed by my local motor factor:

 

735 mm length

736 mm length

737 mm length.

 

The original belt was a 735 mm belt, and with that fully tensioned ther's about 10 mm from the alternator to the chassis rail.

 

I've bought a 737 mm belt, and will try that (QH QBR5737 Caterham 7 & 21)

 

back to the garage!!!

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

A belt 2mm longer will only increase the pulley centres by 1pm.

[John Vine]

The 737 is 2mm longer so will give you about an extra 1mm of gap. Not a lot! Looking at the QH catalogue, the next size up seems to be QBR5750, as fitted to the Metro 100. Provided the width and rib/groove pattern was the same, that would give you about an extra 7.5m gap. Not much spare for adjustment though and getting very close to the chassis!

 

JV

[CageyH]

What happens at other times of the day?

 

Have you checked there is nothing required to be ground off the block?

When I fitted mine, it was tight, but the alternator and belt were in place, and I fed the pipes through. They looked a bit close for comfort, so were located with P clips.

 

Fortunately, I never had to change the belt.

[John Vine]

Quoting CageyH: 

Have you checked there is nothing required to be ground off the block?

Well, the OP did say he'd "removed metal from the engine rib". Could there be more than one alternator version out there, do you think?

 

JV

[Bricol]

I ground quite a lot of metal from the block - enough to reveal the spigot hole near the corner of the block used for machining location in manufacture!

 

Had to remove the alternator to do so with a proper grinder - none of these toy dremel things . But I have no clearance issues with hoses to anything.

 

I also used proper rubber lined pipe clamps to hold the tank, rather than plastic tye-wraps - they didn't seem an "engineered" solution to me.

 

With a standard belt, my alternator is only just clear of the chassis when tensioned correctly.

 

Bri

[Midas]

just finished for the day - thanks for all the info. the longer belt has just done it - although I wish now I had taken more metal off the block - its still all too close for my liking.

 

There's no way I can see to replace the belt with the pipes there! Hope this belt lasts as long as the original (10 years!!!)

 

John, I tried the metro 100 alternator belt, but it was too long - I was hitting the chassis on full tension.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mav]

simply release the top breather pipe to replace the alt belt. the old one will come off over the tank etc. even some of the guys at cc didn't believe it could be done until they saw me do it at a trackday a few years back

[John Vine]

Well done, Confused of Bristol. I think the best long-term solution would be to remove a lot more metal.

 

Re Mav's point, you can even do this with a Laminova installed, provided you detach the two upper oil hose unions first (one on the Apollo and the other on the Laminova).

 

JV