Crossflow sump removal

[Dee Pee]

Have heard all about dropping the sump, easy job I was told!

The sump on my 1690 crossflow wont come off unless the engine is removed and/or the engine is split from the bell housing. IS this the case O expert ones?? I've just tried with some good help. The vertical bolts on each side and front of the sump are easy to access, but the 2/3 vertical bolts at the rear of the sump, adjacent the bell housing are obscured by a vertical aluminium plate between the engine and bell housing and wont allow spanner or socket access. Help!! is there any other way to remove the sump for access?

The sump has to be removed to get access to the piston con rod big ends and push the pistons up, in order to re ring two of them because of major loss of compression.

Surely there must be an easy (ier) way to get the sump off?

Looks like the rest of the summer is Blat less!

 

 

[Pezky]

The blanking plate between the gearbox & engine can be removed to gain access to the bolts. Never done it myself but I am told it is possible.

 

Jonathan

 

penn7's pesky xflow

[dalongbloke]

The plate accross the bell housing is just held on with 2 bolts, then it droops straight down.. Remove, then access the sump bolts.

 

Takes 2 mins... good luck!

 

Check out Hal... http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/dalongbloke

[DaveMorris]

Helpful comments above - however this is true ONLY IF THE PLATE IS SPLIT.

 

The statndard plate is sandwiched between the gearbox bellhousing and the block. Caterham supplied split plates with a top half and a bottom half - though they were not made from Aluminium AFAIK.

If you are looking from front to back the split points are at roughly 5, and 9 o'clock positions (the 5 o'clock one is just to the left of the bottom starter motor bolt. IIRC - if you remove the starter motor then you should be able to see the split point)

 

To remove bottom half of teh plate - remove the bottom two bolts (as mentioned above), and I think also a small one which is in ~ 8 o'clock position. You should then be able to slide the bottom half of the plate out.

However - it may remain clamped in place, and you may need to just slacken off the bellhousing-to-block bolts slightly and then try again.

 

Once this plate is off then access to the rearmost two sump bolts is easy.

 

If it is NOT a split plate then you're boogered and it's an engine out job, or at least a "slide-forward" and partial seperation of gearbox from block (though having got to this stage I'd get the engine out and the sandwich plate split).

 

I can send you a piccie if needed,

 

Dave.

[Dee Pee]

Thanks to all three who have replied so far. Going to have a look again at plate tomorrow and hope upon hope that the plate is split!!! Another other information still welcomed!

 

 

[jonboylaw]

As Dave M said, if a split plate then it is an easy job. When taking off the sup and also when putting it back on, slacken the bolts in diagonals a little at a time until the sump is lose and tighten the same way, this avoids distorting the sump. Do not over tighten the bolts either or the gasket may fail.

 

 

Jonathan

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92 Supersprint, Ford LSD LA, RK AX Crossflow. Stealth model (Matt Black and Ali), rebuild completed.

 

[NevDyson]

Dee Pee

 

 

Previous Post

 

It is possible to do if you have a one piece plate, it is a pig of a job, but with a bit of patience can be completed in about 2 hours.

 

Nev

[Dee Pee]

Thanks to all for the terrific information.

Now have sump off and accessed at least one faulty piston with a 50mm long broken ring land and a broken compression ring. Fortunately no bore damage. Might do adjacent piston, which is also down on compression whilst sump is off.

 

 

[dalongbloke]

Well done that man! Respect for dedicated DIY skills...

 

Check out Hal... http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/dalongbloke

[Roger King]

That's a 'standard' failure if you're using cast pistons. Change the whole lot or you'll be doing it all again very soon. Even better fit forgings, but you'll have to have a rebore to 83.5mm for that.

[DaveMorris]

Take heed of Rogers warning.

For what the rings cost - and as you're in a positon to do it - replace rings on all pistons.

 

You know it makes sense 😬

[elie boone]

I think Roger wanted to say, change all the pistons not just 1 piston.

[Dee Pee]

Have taken Roger K's advice and ordered new pistons which come with rings. I see another few hours under the car again, and that's before I start on the top end! Again, thanks to all for the great contributions. (Might need you all again before the saga is over!)

 

 

[Clousta]

An update on crossflow split bell housing dust plates.

 

I found this post and used it as guidance when removing my sump following a rock impact on the underside of the sump during the 2nd Auto-Balade in France (and Belgium) yesterday.

 

I noticed the oil pressure was low (about .75 bar) on the gauge pulled in and switched off. The gauge (mechanical) did return to zero and we were going relatively slowly having just come out of a village. On reflection it was a fist sized rock that had been flicked up by the car in front, which was en route to the cafe stop some 30 minutes previously. So the leak must have been pretty slow because we didn't notice it at the stop. There was quite a large pool of oil, 1.5 litres may be, on the ground by the time the (very good) French recovery guy arrived though.

 

Today I got the car up on axle stands and looked sump and the access at the back end of the sump. On the roadside I thought that the right hand side seam had split but the actual damage turned out to be a 1.5mm x3mm hole in the bottom of the sump. There were also a few more hefty scars under there that I couldn't recall.

 

The bell housing dust shield was in place and obscured the rearmost sump nuts as expect from this post. However there was no sign of a split dust shield although the 8 o'clock small securing bolt (next to the clutch cable mounting) was missing. The shield flapped about a bit so that was a promising sign. On the other side there was no sign of a cut. To get better access I disconnected the battery and removed the starter motor. When the starter motor was removed it was clear that dust shield had been split (by the original builder or possibly Oselli Engine Services who built the engine in 1988). The dust shield was neatly split at the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock position.

 

Despite having to remove the starter motor this seems to be a better arrangement than the cuts lower down the clock face as dust is kept out of the bell housing because the cuts are hidden when everything is assembled. All the sump bolts came out OK. I used a 1/4" socket set with an extension as previously described in the thread. The rearmost bolts one were straightforward too. It doesn't take much to loosen them and then I transferred the socket from the ratchet to the 'screwdriver' handle and the removal of the nuts was quick.

 

I encountered two difficulties. One was that the oil cooler flexible mounting nut to the oil filter mounting plate fouled the lip of the sump slightly. I had to disconnect both flexibles completely to be able to drop the sump. This proved to be quite straight forward. Secondly, and frustratingly, the oil pick up strainer was caught on the internal baffle and I couldn't remove the sump even though everything was disconnected. This required putting one's hand inside and feeling for the obstruction, jiggling the sump a bit and then it came free.

 

No debris or bearing material visible in the sump. The crankshaft and the underside of the pistons all look very clean - so fingers cross that there has been no engine damage.

 

I hope this update may reassure someone else who is about to remove the sump and thinks that their bell housing dust shield is not split - it just might be but you can't see it.

 

Next stage is to either weld up or buy a new sump and refit.

 

The engine is a 691M block (cortina crossflow?) bored out with 40" pistons to a nominal 1700cc. Fitted with 711M end caps. Mk 1 Escort 4 speed gear box.

 

 

 

Edited by - Clousta on 4 Sep 2011 18:26:28