Gads, bikes are quick!!

[First Man]

Driving up the A23 yesterday near Gatwick, when a couple of fast bikes came by. Don't know what they were, they went past too quickly, but the rear wheels were almost as wide as mine. I dropped a gear and floored it but couldn't catch up. Backed off when I realised I had reached a speed which I can't publish here! By the time I reached the next roundabout, they were gone. Talk about low flying - what a buzz!

 

First Man.

[aph]

not suprised cars just can't even get close to a bikes power to weight ratio, I mean look at a gsxr750 it weighs under 170kg and produces over 140bhp, mental!

[lowlander]

I'll second that. My old CB600F (sports commuter type bike) woulkd crack 100 mph in about 10 seconds or so and you can pick them up for about £2500 - £3000 second hand easily. Can't match a se7en in other areas mind you but in terms of strightline speed bikes are unbeatable.

 

All the Best.

 

Martin.

 

[shaunsl]

First Man

 

Come... join us on the dark side, you know you want too.

 

BTW... I ride a Honda Blackbird 1100cc, 165BHP, almost 200MPH, 3.2 sec 0 to 60, 200/50 rear tyre and all this for only £6000 (and I only pay £60 a year tax).

 

Or you could buy a Suzuki Hayabusa, but then the best thing you could do with that is turn it into a W*******d.

[murph7355]

Plus a nice big insurance policy to cover loss of earnings after you throw it into a bush after not very long and have to take a year off recovering.

 

I will get a bike one day, and have much respect for bikers and bikes (especially the awesome MV Augusta F4 job that passed me on the M6 yesterday and anything with Ducati written on it for the noise alone) but life expectency decreases in direct proportion to the fun quotient. If only because other road users are careless inconsiderate knob jockeys.

[Richard Anderson]

Pah!

 

Bikes are only good a straight line speed and, for that jaunt you can never have enough power!

 

Throw in a few bends and you can easily keep with any bikes....plus, I have a roll cage! :-)

[Graham Perry]

In a perfect world a big bike would be the perfect form of transport. But it ain't a perfect world.

 

 

[Ian Kellar]

OT, but does the A23 traffic between Brighton and the Pease Pottage turn off get quicker every Sunday? At the rate it seems to be going, this time next year, I am going to be arriving before I set off.

[jerrypike]

agree that you'll need something very special to match big bike acceleration, but i think the buzz from cornering a bike is even better than a 7 (even if it's not as quick)

however, don't try to approach the limits of a bike anywhere near as quickly as a car or it will hurt

i ride a blackbird on the road, 916 for track days, slr for 4 wheeled entertainment can see both sides of the coin

enjoy both

jerry

[AndyPandy]

Shaun

 

The Blackbird's 0-60 must be quicker than that surely....MCN had a 2001 R1 hit 60 in 2.25 last year.

 

I agree that bikes are quick but I prefer the seven.It's more fun to drive and I feel safer in it than I ever felt on my R1.The only down side is that I can't fit into my seven when I'm wearing my Dainese one piece !.gif

 

teeth.gif Superlight 143 teeth.gif

[jerrypike]

andy

0-60 times on bikes are very launch sensitive, but the blackbird is easier than the r1 due to weight/wheelbase

checking back to bike magazine 2 years ago the blackbird managed

0-130 in 9.90 secs (hence why you'll struggle to keep it in sight in a 7)

would have thought 1 piece dainese would have been ideal to stop banging/cooking knees on the transmission tunnel!

jerry

[Graeme Smith]

Its near impossible to drive a Seven in one piece leathers (as I've found jumping from one form of transport to the other). They're too restrictive and bulky, and knee-slicers keep on banging off the transmission tunnel/cockpit side...

[jerrypike]

my old kushtani's obviously don't have enough armour and are nicely broken (not crashed) in

knee sliders velcro off pretty easily

i thought knee-slicers were those toggle switches and the ignition key /barrel! (sorry, can't do the tongue in cheeck smiley)

jerry

[Violet Elizabeth]

The bike, and biker, that were splattered all over a junction on the A24 last Sunday afternoon certainly must have got a good buzz. So did the bikers that were overtaking the queue of traffic I was in waiting for his bike bits to be swept up. Amazing how quickly they all slowed down once they realised what had happended.

 

Bikes are fast. But I would rather be slower and alive than faster and dead.

[shaunsl]

It's not the machine that makes it dangerous, it's the person (allegedly) in control.

 

I ride every day and have done for 18 years without injury (and that includes 4 years living in London). In that time I have written off a few cars trying to emulate the performance of the bike and I have been put in hospital for 6 months with 2 broken legs when some d***head hit me head on on my side of the road (I could have avoided that one on the bike, but there was not eneough room to avoid it in a car).

 

Thankfully now I have a car that can come close to the performance but without losing it (even though I came close on Idianapolis at Le Mans this year overtaking a TVR).

[Johnny Boy]

The answer, quite obviously, is to put the bike engine in the 7. wink.gif

[edmandsd]

My views on the subject are as follows:

Bikes are very fast in a straight line mainly as a result of their low weight, high rpm (and associated wide torque band) and excellent aerodymanics.

When comparing power to weight do it with a driver/rider aboard for a fairer comparison

Bikes engines have less torque and are hence less likely to wheelspin at launch in a Cat than a 'car' engine. They also have very close ratio gearing making the most of the relatively low power output they have - this all results in excellent 0-60 times and good 0-100 times, after that outright power will prevail.

 

[Peter Carmichael]

Less likely to wheelspin and also more likely to bog down.

 

Bikes have trouble achieving their maximum power to weight acceleration from standstill because of front wheel lift. In the same but opposite way, it is quite rare to get a car that can achieve a wheel stand (is that the correct term?), which represents the limit state for grip from a rear wheel drive car - RWD cars that go round corners tend to suffer from a lack of standing start traction.

 

In the end cars and bikes are just different - a bike is probably an easier suspension problem to solve as it only has two modes of suspension travel (pitch and heave) as opposed to a car's four modes (pitch, heave, roll and warp). A bike makes do with a limited contact patch. Each has different considerations for sprung/unsprung mass ratio, with a bike unable to capitalise on the weight of its rider to achieve more grip because the rider is only "loosely attached" and the car having to control the masses of driveshafts and brakes capable of dissipating greater heat.

 

Both are fun.

 

Peterid=teal>

253 BHP K-seriesteeth.gif, no gearboxbum.gifid=red>

[Morls]

The best bit with a bike's weight distribution is that you can change it as you ride...

 

If you want a wheelie: Simply lean back under acceleration

 

If you want less wheelies: (like in hillclimbing where these slow you down) simply lean over the front

 

If braking on warm tyres: Simply lean back to keep the rear wheel on the deck

 

Or... lean forward to get the back wheel off the deck smile.gif

 

Pegs down cornering: Simply lean off the side

 

The extra bit of late braking, early acceleration and top speed availible from moving all over the bike makes biking so much more dynamic (and physically exhausting) than the already exciting experience of seven driving, basically it adds another dimension to the fun.

 

 

I miss my bike sad.gif

 

 

 

Mark

[Morls]

Having re-read Peter's bit above, the issue of "The Limit" under acceleration is variable in a car the same as on a bike...

 

On an infinately long and low RWD machine (of 2 or 4 wheels), an imaginary line between the rear wheel spindle and the CoG would cover an included angle of Zero Degrees "The Limit" will be rear wheel spin in the lower gears.

 

On a short wheelbase high CoG machine an imaginary line between the rear wheel spindle and the CoG would cover an included angle of nearer 90 Degrees: "The Limit" would be wheelstanding.

 

We've played with this on Hillclimb bikes based on open class motocrossers...

 

If the standard suspension is used, the CoG is about 45" AFFL and roughly central in a 73" ish wheelbase. In the dry wheelies are the limiting factor on corner exit in 1st 2nd and 3rd.

 

With the suspension lowered, smaller wheels, a cut down seat and bars tipped forwards the CoG is lower and nearer the front and wheelspin is the limiting factor.

 

Trying this low set-up on mud never lets the rear tyre hook up... the CoG is simply too low for the level of friction availible.

 

When developed fully, the CoG height and point between the wheels can be optomised to suit the level of friction availible with "wet" and "dry" setups being varied to find the point where Wheelspin can be induced by leaning forward or wheelies by leaning back ... Perfect smile.gif

 

So... If you had a seven with a higher CoG, nearer the back wheels, the 0-60 (and 0-100 on some of the silly powerful ones), would be improved hugely.

 

Of course it would be crap at corners then tho....

 

 

 

Mark

[Morls]

Just out of interest...

 

Apparently a bike engined Caterham has a rear biased weight distribution (and of course a little less inertia to overcome).

 

How were the BECs getting off the line at Curborough?

 

 

 

 

Mark

[sjwb]

"My views on the subject are" to quote one of your correspondents; is that he is talking from somewhere else and all of this is nothing more than (sic) intellectual masturbation .

 

Steve B

 

Edited by - sjwb on 2 Jul 2002 19:50:17

[Richiemouse]

An interesting discussion. I've been a biker since I was born, I think, and have always had a bike since I was old enough to get a license. I had a brief flirtation with building a cobra and drove a 5l Mustang for a while but the bikes have always done it for me. Track days on a bike are the ultimate buzz...no actually, riding at the 'Ring is the ultimate biking buzz and my friends and myself have been enjoying that pleasure for a good few years now. However, in that time, with the exception of two careful lady bikers, we have *all* crashed there, resulting in anything from scraped leathers and broken plastic to a fortnight unconsious in ITU...I think we've been lucky so far!! This year three of us came to the same conclusion at about the same time, riding at the 'Ring is just too dangerous due to the constant threat of oil spills. Consequently there are now three new Caterham owners in the world smile.gif

 

As the newest newbie I can't comment on the Cat experience yet but I think that it will be hard to achieve the totally focussed, almost hypnotic state you get when you're riding a fast bike on a fast track...fast! For those of you who think that the bike is all about straight line speed you couldn't be more wrong. Going fast in a straight line is little more than a means to get to the next twisty bit, that's where the real fun lies. I drove my new toy around all weekend and absolutely loved it. Today I commuted into work on my GSXR600, the Cat is fast but the bike is Bl**dy fast and no, I don't live one end of a dual cabbageway and work the other, it's all B roads and lanes smile.gif

 

Rich

[Julians Biatch]

Having been involved in 'loss of traction' in both 4 and 2 wheeled rockets i have to say in my opinion is an awful lot easier to catch an car than a bike in that inevitable 'OH CRAP' situation. Another point is hitting tarmac from a come off at whatever speed hurts, but sliding a car can give a hell of an adrenaline rush, if you don't prang it into anything that is!!!

 

But looking at this topic and thinking about it, cars and bikes are different entirely and we shouldn't even compare. Both have good and bad points, if you want to compare anything look at sports bikes and tourers or Caterhams and other 4-wheelers. Compare like for like....

[EFA]

I get very close to Huyabusa's and GSR1000's, and past everything else.

 

Bikes 0-60 are very launch sensitive (far more than a car) and it takes a very skilled rider to deliver over 90% of the bikes acceleration and keep the front wheel down.

 

R1's are cannon fodder to a quick Seven like Peters or mine.

 

 

 

Fat Arn

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