Johnny Boy Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 Write-up on Auto Express website - comes over very well, they obviously like it (although I STILL don't like the awful 'Halfords' 15" wheels), but the finish teh article by saying... But this particular model is aimed at track-day fans rather than anyone who wants to use their car for road use. The R300's engine is only happy when given full throttle, and any attempt to drive at low revs, such as when following another vehicle in traffic, makes the car kangaroo and lurch as though it's running out of petrol. Unless the road ahead is clear, driving requires delicate clutch work to prevent stalling. We suspect all but the most hardened buyers would sacrifice a few horsepower in favour of a retuned engine which is driveable at speeds below 40mph. The R300 has a slightly more tuned version of a K (sorry X-power) than I have under my bonnet, and mine is fine. Is this the MG/Rover facter? eek.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 Probably got it in sixth and not a lot happens from 0-40 in sixth!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 You'd know......especially with a K series...................... Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM siteid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRIS CLARK Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 True Arnie, but try it in the right gears and the 'K' sings........ unlike the V/X where the fat lady sings (off key too)!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h.p.c. peter Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 v/x seems to pull ok in 5th under 40 mph,its all torque with v/x and talk with a k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red SLR Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 I am sorry but thats just a load of arse. They need to learn how to drive - oh sorry I forget... Caterham dont do an auto option.... Auto german car driving fools *storms off muttering something about the war* X777CAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 K's pull fine under 40mph in 5th. Or 6th for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 Probably because the barrel throttle bodies have very erratic flow at low openings and because of a map to try and suit emissions. It is very easy to get perfect progression with a highly tuned K. Peterid=teal> 253 BHP K-seriesteeth.gif, no gearboxbum.gifid=red> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 Chris, Were you referring to Madame du Lard??tongue.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 I dont understand why they need to use a modified K to achieve 165BHP. My new 165 BHP VVC engine cost less than a set of roller barrels and it out torques a VHPD below 3000rpm. Okay it doesn't have the induction noise of roller barrels but then again thats a good thing as I dont have to buy the carbon airbox kit (which also costs more than my engine). The only reason my car is undriveable below 40 is because I cant bear to drive it that slowly!! Okay so I'd love a set of RB's but we're saving up at the moment for something else.... BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 I should make clear that highly tuned Ks don't pull too well in second. Peterid=teal> 253 BHP K-seriesteeth.gif, no gearboxbum.gifid=red> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tezza Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 Jonny Boy The 'Halfords' 15" wheels as you mentioned are not going to be on the car, as these are the ones used for the pre launch photos. i have ordered R300 and have been shown a picture of the wheels that will be fitted. P.S. still 'Halfords' 15" wheels though! One more thing you can drive well under 40mph with no problems as I have been out in a demo car before it went to EVO mag. terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 Out torqueing a VHPD below 3000rpm does seem to be a csse of determining the question having decided upon the flattering answer. I presume this means that the VHPD toasts your VVC for torque above 3000rpm - just me reading the corollary of your words teeth.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Corb Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Yes Peter, I just cant understand why Caterham have decided to throw so much money at a fairly basic Rover motor but only to achieve 165BHP? Tuning an engine by fitting roller barrels will remove all the secondary tuning at low speed hence knobling torque. Additonally fitting throttles with no progression then makes things a bit frisky and finally fitting a basic aftermarket ECU with no driveability smoothing functions installed is the icing on the cake, here we come Kangrooville!!. Unless your going for 190+BHP I'll stick with my VVC thanks. (Although I'd rather have a Ford Duratec in hindsight). BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Do bike engined cars pull well at 40 in 6th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Mad Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 i had been driving a caterham in my head since i was twelve, so i never kangaroo'ed when i first got into one at the age of 27. my girlfriend, a 'normal' person, found it very difficult at first to cope with something so light and powerful. this journalist is obviously the same, which is of course a disgrace for a motoring journo. it does require finesse to drive our cars smoothly at slower speeds, it's just easy to forget when it comes so naturally to us fans. i can't work it out. these days it appears you need fewer and fewer skills and next to no common sense or practical intelligence to work in the published media. j ps still reeling from hearing the ****head commentator on the nurburgring programme calling our cars 'chatter-homs'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_ed Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 >do bike engines pull well at 40mph in 6th. Yes! My fireblade is happy down to 30mph in 6th and will pick up smoothly (although not terribly quickly) from there as long as you're not going up hill. The bigger and fuel injected bike engines are even better. Bike engines are wonderfully smooth throughout the rev range, no kangarooing at all (unless maybe on flatslide carbs). I guess the difference is the amount of time/expense Honda etc put into developing the cams and maps. Eg developing a standard production bike engine with 145bhp/litre, they'll spend a lot more time working on driveability etc than an engine tuner who's modifying a car engine from 70bhp/litre to 110bhp/litre (who's probably more concerned with power than driveability). IYSWIM.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 The fact that most BEC's run about a 10 to 12mph/1000rpm top gear also has a lot to do with it. Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM siteid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_ed Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 How come? Surely that means its even further off the cam. At 30mph, in 6th gear, its doing 2750rpm. Peak torque is at about 8000rpm and peak power is at about 10,000. Cheers, Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_ed Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Errr, all I'm trying to say is that the driveability of bike engines, even when they're way out of their powerband is very very impressive, especially considering the puny attempt at a flywheel that they've got etc etc. I'd guess when I'm doing 30mph in my blade BEC, its only producing 50bhp and 20lbft or torque! I presume it's because the manufacturers spend ages and ages mapping them fully, ie at every combination of RPM and throttle opening. Whereas when you take a tuned/modded car engine, with a programmable ECU to a rolling road, it'd cost a fortune if they _fully_ mapped it like this, and so they tend to spent more time on the rpm/throttle opening pairings that are in keeping with the nature of the car. Ie spent more time mapping WOT sites than POT sites.. Cheers, Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.R. Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 My standard Blackbird Caterham pulls like a train from 1200 rpm in 6th gear on 3/4 throttle (about 14mph), it will take full throttle from 20mph and just flys. At 6000 RPM in 6th it is doing 71.9 MPH and will lift the nose about 2 inches under full throttle acceleration, you could also change down to 5th 4th or 3rd to make full use of the revs but it pulls so well in top I rarely bother. It is running my own ram air set up so I suppose it cant truly be described as standard but the engine internals are standard as are the exhaust primaries and secondarys (with a bit of cutting and shutting. Also I dont suffer any of the noise or blown exhaust packing problems by utilising the Honda exhaust components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Are Caterham still using the bog standard ECU with the R300 etc though? I would have assumed, with their tie up, that the mods haven't been done without making sure the maps were all OK for both emissions and driveability (in that order!). Sounds like an inexperienced journo to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashaughnessy Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Andy, I would assume no such thing. No manufacturer is above taking shortcuts for mass production (Caterham aren't exactly mass production, but they do produce a certain volume to a standard spec). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B11MOY Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 The only thing that makes this car kangaroo is the nut behind the steering wheel!! Billy Rudd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buda Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Pardon the interjection... Just thinking about it, I don't actually know what noise a kangaroo makes, cows - moo, chickens - cluck, dogs - woof, worms however make no noise at all, what noise does a kangaroo make? Sorry - its just that its giving me sleepless nights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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