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Johnny Boy

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I suspected so!


Julian - I know the Lotus was designed back in the 50's, but Caterham are still relying on 80's techonolgy (and earlier), hell, the R500 still has a 1980's engine eek.gif


One off Caterbusa? Such a missed trick sad.gif

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BEC is a fad I think it won't last. An EU2 K-Series is not an 80's engine and cetainly the technology and devlopment is a good deal more recent than that! Anyway Fireblade engines originate in the early 90's?


Bike engined cars make fantastic track machines but I don't think Caterham will ever make them the mainstay of the range. Westfield seem to think everything should have a bike engine at the expense of their conventionally engined range. Bike power could never give the all round ability of a car engine despite what people say.


Anyway the Westfield Megabusa seems to exist far more in Magazines than at track days? Has it ever got anywhere near the R500's at the JCC events? Even with the Aero packs of the XTR2 it doesn't seem to be that quick? Imagine what the R500 engine would do in that body!

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I don't agree. Having driven a couple of BECs I am bitten and desperatly want to trade-up to a BEC...but the lack of caterham BEC and James Whiting's attitude and seeming reluctance to quote an accurate on the road price mean it is far harder than it should be. I am now looking at replacing the engine in my car with a bike engine as that seems the most feasible option without going to the dark side (westfield)


The BEC is very different, but as pure thrill car I don't think it can be beaten, especially at the price. A BEC came very close to Ince's R500 at curborough and that was only a fireblade. Had it been a busa with its 50% extra bhp, that would surely have made up more than the 2-3% difference!


I do agree with you in as much as I don't think Caterham will embrace BECs, but that will be their failing and an large part of a growing market they will miss out on!


The K-series came from the 80s. It may have been developed more recently, but it is an old engine. And ironically enough, its origins can be traced back to the Honda Gold Wing engine, so maybe the R500 is a low tech BEC wink.gif Fireblade engines may be 10 years old, but the busa engine is pretty much bang up to date!


Oh and R500 engine in an XTR2 body? it would be slower as it's PWR would be worse, and its overall weight would be higher. Now a Busa engine in an R500 body, THATS the one to build!


edited to clarify comments made (see bold above)


Edited by - Johnny Boy on 23 Jun 2002 10:14:38

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..lets not also forget that if comparing R500 and MegaBusa that there is a £15k+ cost difference. Spend that £15k on a busa and just think what could be done. 260bhp turbo conversion for £4k for a start eek.gif


Granted if Caterham ever do go into the Caterbusa (and assuming usual 'premium') the cost would leap to R500 levels!

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you obviously put VFM over prestige and brand snobbery.


No, I go for the car and enjoyment/fun factor above anything else, but VFM does come way before 'prestige' and 'brand snobbery'.


You, on the other hand, obviously put said 'prestige' and 'brand snobbery' above everything else!!! Do you only ever drive your car where it will be 'seen'?? You ought to, one day, try actually driving your car for the hell of it rather than just sitting in the glory of its badge.


What a sad sad reason for owning one of the most focused (and best) drivers cars on the planet. sad.gif



Gridgeway, try enquiring about a fireblade! Great conceptual salesman, but (in my opinion) with the honesty and integrity of a policitian. And I'm not the first to say so. I have spoken to well over a dozen people who were set on buying a fireblade but cancelled/were out off by the process after contacting JW. Some have gone 'blackbird' some have gone 'westfield' some are doing what I am looking at and transplating a bike engine into their current se7en.


As I said above, such a missed trick sad.gif

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BEC vs CEC: R500 vs Radical SR3 comparison would be interesting. Looks like you'd need about £40k to get a reasonable spec for either so they appear to be a similar price. Similar performance? - haven't a clue. Do they run head to head in the JCC?


I'm running about standard Hyabusa power in my Caterham Blackbird at present and it works very well. If you were to get a starting point of a Hyabusa and a thousand quid or so (some work on the head, some flat slide carbs and a full throttle shift kit) you could make a Caterham really fly. Does anyone know how Doug got the gearing to work on the Caterbusa so as to get a decent top end speed?

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Johnny - you will probably look back on your posts here in 12 months and cringe - it is sooooo hard to predict what will actually happen. Remember when we were all talking about Duratec being about to oust the K series?


The fact of the matter is that the "brand snobbery" is infact "car pride" - a shiny new 7 is just soooooo desirable, and I can't quite tell you why. Even my Westy owning buddy agrees that it just has a certain aura about it.


As Pete Carmichael said once when we were banging on about "ultimate 7's", the 7 isn't "ultimate" ! It's old fashioned, outdated and although it has embraced some technology - in places absolutely up to the minute technology - it is, and always will be a fun, pure, flawed compromise!


Enjoy it, because cars designed in the spirit of the 7 are getting very scarce and if you are concerned about any bitching - which is actually good natured most of the time (we all sort of know how far to go)- then maybe


"a drive for the hell of it"


will do you good, too!

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VC's point is interesting. I remember Richard (Ince) posting, wondering what his R500 would be like with the ~250hp SR3 engine. What I think sounds interesting are the cars advertised on the Caterham Canada site: all with busa engines and power packages "up to 340 bhp"!!!
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Johnny Boy (Mr Angry),


Whilst no-one can deny Monsieur du Lard enjoys the limelight, he has built a fantastic car and certainly drives it. And whilst he may be not quite as practiced in the art as the likes of M. Ince he certainly is a quick driver. Just ask Snapper how much quicker his car went with Arnie behind the wheel.


You obviously haven't had the pleasure/experience of riding shotgun!!


As for the BEC debate. Wasn't the Fireblade driven by a certain Herr Swift who walks his dog round the track every morning, he's bound to know the circuit inside out. If I remember correctly Arnie told us that Dave Kimberley took K2RUM out, having never driven the car (or used a sequential box before) and eclipsed M. Inces R500 time. The only fair comparison is the same (unbiased and committed) driver on the same track, and like all good scientific experiments plenty of replications.


Edited by - Nifty on 23 Jun 2002 10:19:51

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Julian - I think you miss-understand me (or I don't make myself clear wink.gif )


I don't think Bike power could ever replace the 'K' or car engined power. Whilst the bike engined cars are easy to drive on the road, they are a very raw interpretation, and do take a more focussed driving style. IMO Bike power is only an option for pure 'balls out' driving thrill "Driving for the hell of it" as it were!! but then that is all I really use my current (K powered) caterham for.


BUT...surely Caterham can supply more than one engine type? (perhaps not with new Rover deal??) What other manufacturer only offers one, 4-cylinder engine? The BECs should be a compliment to the Caterham range, especially as the principle behind the BECs is exactly the principle Colin Chapman employed back in 1957!?



I know the 'shiney new car' pull is great, but surely with a sports car, you buy it for what it does rather than what it is? And I agree that the se7en is old technology, but the steps forward seem to have slowed. What has there been developed in the past few years? Nothing monumental except the R500 (and that was only to answer and better the FW400!) The old engine has been tuned a bit more, the 30 year old rear axle has been ditched in (sole) favour of a 20 year old one, some parts have been made a bit lighter...but thats about it!


I love my Caterham and am being selfish - it is time I upgraded again and I don't see anything new in the Caterham range to go for without spending a kings ransom.



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I have never doubted the Mr Fat's ability behind the wheel, its just his apparent preference to show of his badge rather than get behind the wheel.


Surely if his car is as good as he says (which again I don't doubt) the idea is to drive it not look at it/have it looked at?


Maybe I'm different in wanting to drive my car rather than look at/talk about it??



Arnie? I'm inconsolable



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ISTR you spouting on about all of this a couple of months ago. If you are so concerned with finding something more upto date why not go off and find it instead of wasting your and our time in this forum.



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