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A warning

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A reminder to exercise caution when buying through this forum. I'm sure that the vast majority of transactions are straightforward but one experience of mine is worth repeating.


I bought a quaiffe box through an ad placed in the for sale section from someone who is apparently a club member(Ad is dated 8th July 2001 if you're interested) It was advertised as being in "excellent condition" - It wasn't! It was knackered.


Invited the seller to contribute to the cost of repairs, this was refused (Twice)

Sued him in the County court and last month got a judgment for £340 odd. He had 28 days to pay - but hasn't. I'm about to send the Bailiffs round.


I'm lucky - I'm a lawyer!

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Glad to see you got a result. Perhaps next to the For Sale page we ought to have a 'Dirty Lying Thieving Toe-Rags Who Are Going To Get A Kicking' page that lists anyone who has knowingly fibbed about what they are selling (no comments about estate agents please - we have been there)!


On a mildly serious note. SE7ens and their like are not common machines and I amnot sure I could trust the AA to look one over. Perhaps the L7C(GB) should produce a pamphlet or perhaps a web page that lists things for people to look out for when buying a se7en or second hand parts.




Make advertisers on our site agree to some legal statement vouching for the condition of the part they are selling. You would undoubtedly know better than I of the legal probs with this.


Ade biggrin.gif

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I can't say that the guy made a deliberate & conscious effort to "leg me over" but:


A) He refused my overtures towards a compromise (& ended up with a judgment for £200 more for his troubles)

B) Put in a defence that was always going to fail

C) Hasn't paid up despite losing in Court


He's had my £630 - even if he pays me the £340 he's still £290 up on the deal - but now he'll never get credit again because he has a County Court Judgment against him! Worthwhile? I think not!


The warning goes both ways though. Advertise something only in terms that you're prepared to underwrite - otherwise you'll end up with some sod like me sending the bailiffs round to take your car away!

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Aves, I prefer to believe you were quite unlucky.


I do hope that I am not tempting fate here, but I have bought numerous items from fellow club members, and so far I have recieved items in good condition, virtually as described and have usually had a bargain too.


I guess I would be quite carefull if I was spending 5 or 6 hundred quid but for cheaper items my experience it that most buyers are happy to send cheques for items unseen.



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Just for interest sake (not that I want to fiddle anyone!), but what if you sell say a g/box that was working perfectly well when you had it installed in your car. You 'upgrade' to a six speed say and then sell on the surplus 'box to help recover some of the costs. New owner fits it, thrashes around with it,then knocks out the synchro rings by short shifting (or something like that).

Seller is then chased by new owner for some recompense. How does the seller then stand?


I know your case wasn't like that, but you get my drift. Tricky I'd guess where mechanical items are sold.I mean,imagine buying PC's g/box & just after it sheds all the second gear teeth & creates a huge problem/bill!!!Ummmmmm.


What's the 'get-out' wording to be?

Interested of Canterbury.

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Nobody likes a deliberate stitchup of any nature, but aren't there some slight parallels here with the recent Arrowstar situation? And perhaps it's not a great idea to go into all this much detail about who wronged who in such a public forum for which we all as club members are liable?



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Basic rule in a consumer to consumer sale (ie - not buying from a business) is "buyer beware" ("caveat emptor"). However, if the seller has made any sort of representation about any aspect of the goods, which turns out to be false, then seller is liable.


First Man.

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Steve - There was a football game!


Si - I'm at a loss to understand your point. The "Brakes" were put on the Arrowstar issue because of the threat of a defamation action. The true position was I think put faily succintly in the Low Flying article. My problem didn't involve the club at all. It's up to me what I post. I stayed quiet about it when it all blew up & even at the time of the Court case. It's in the public domain. My posting was a genuine warning. My "Problem" now is the refusal of the guy to pay up having lost in Court - Particularly as he said in Court that he would have refunded all the money at the time of purchase!


Chris - First man has it - Generally buyer beware - the Sale Of Goods Acts implied statutory terms are not implied into person to person (Rather than business to consumer) transactions.


But if you make representations in your ad or in pre contractual negotiations that the buyer depends on - You're bound to them and your buyer can recover damages if they were false - even innocently.


"Sold as seen" effectively exempts the seller. "Excellent Condition" doesn't!


Anthony - Will that suffice? My name was in print in the last Low Flying althogh I'm still puzzled by one of the references!

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Aves, that is reasonably clear except for one question. If I were to say something like "Engine for sale, has been running without trouble in current car", am I making any kind of representation as to the condition of the engine? After all, the engine might be knackered but I would (presumably) be speaking truthfully when I say it has been running without trouble. To use the example of Peter's gearbox. If he is unaware that it is about to explode, he might innocently and truthfully say "gearbox for sale, has been running without trouble" but then the hypothetical buyer suffers catastrophic 2nd gear failure.


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Buyer beware - simple as that. My man would not have had a problem if the phrase "Excellent condition" hadn't been mentioned in the ad & subsequent E-mails.


It gets more complicated than that though. Defining "Excellent" is a lot easier than "Good" or "Fair" for instance.


The judge saw my internals together with a report from R&R transmissions & formed a view.

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AVES, my point, quite simply, was that a lot of people were just rubber necking the Arrowstar situation and someone, possibly you, told them all to mind their own business. There was a cautionary tale but only the persons directly involved needed to know the full details!


I can see that it's very usefull to know that caveat emptor need not apply to private sales of this nature, but I can't understand why you felt it neccesary to expose the seller to prove this valuable point?


Make the point by all means but the dispute is between you and the seller, we don't need to know details unless you are now encouraging us to be rubber neckers?


I thought this whole name them and shame them thing had been discussed and dismissed as too risky to the club (which means us as shareholders)?


Si (I am still grateful to learn from this lesson though)

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