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No windscreen - legal?

Mike Molloy

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Blue book 2002


Section L 10.3.9 applies

"Windscreens are mandatory for closed vehicles. They are free for all open vehicles"

unless stated otherwise in the supplementary regs and they don't seem to be this timesmile.gif


It would be nice to clarify this point.




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I am not involved (officialy at least)with organising the MIRA sprint. Grahan Lyall is the man (our new competition secretary....) However in reply to Lawrences point, there is a conflict here because common regulations for all competitors (which is prefaced by the wording "competitors in all events must comply" etc..states E 12.19.8 except for racing cars be fitted with a windscreen.... E 12 is relevant also.


I spoke to the MSA on this conflict last year and they took the view that Sevens should run with a screen (which is why Curborough regs specify it). I then asked them to define exactly what constitutes a screen (ie minimum area, material type, etc) and they were not ableunwilling to do so !


The safe (from a scrutineering point of view) thing to do is fit some sort of screen although in practice I doubt that a scrutineer would refuse you if you do not.


Given that Graham has picked up the organisation of the Mira event part way through (and has done a fine job in very difficult circumstances) and given that it would make sense for all the Club sprints to run under the same regulations wherever possible I suggest that the non inclusion of a screen be viewed as an oversight


All the above is my personal view only.


Ex Chairman Roger

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If mirrors are required for the car to be road legal then you need them unless of course your car is entered as non road legal,has an MSA log book and appears in the correct class !


Ex Chairman Roger

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Thanks to RogerLogic smile.gif

I now agree that all cars must have a windscreen.....

the definition of which is free ...

but "windscreen wipers must be operative on all cars with windscreens"


but on the road so long as the current driver can see over the top of your windscreen, wipers are not required....

so only the vertically challenged need wipers on their brookland's then? Poor PP smile.gif


As an aside has anyone looked at/through the REAR windscreen on a Lotus 340R?

yes it does have one smile.gif I wonder if it's heated.


I guess the real problem then is for short folk with the carbon deflector, which is obviously not a windscreen....or is it? and why has it no wipers?


2 mirrors are required for SVA


May I suggest a requirement of a screen or deflector in the supplimentary regs or forget about it entirely smile.gif


Lawrence smile.gif

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Hi Guys


Sorry I'm away working at the moment so have not been able to check the site. I've not got my regs with me but in all other other chasmpionships 'Road Legal' classes MUST run with a windscreen and as a lot of other people will have their winscreen fitted I think it only appropriate that all roadgoing cars have a windscreen.


Hope everyones clear (if not use your wipers!!!!)


(I'm referring to Class 1 & 2 , hope it makes sense, linked to 1A tyres)






cool.gif1700 Live Axle X/Flow, got the engine upgrade, got the new tyres, now got to lose some weight id=red> cool.gif



Edited by - Bacon Butty on 18 Jun 2002 11:35:16

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Is an aeroscreen a windscreen?


The Curborough sprint was different from most other road-going sprint series in that it did allow aeroscreens. I guess a lot of people entered may not have a full windscreen at all. A swift reply would be appreciated as I was going to fit my aeroscreen tonight in a (probably doomed) attempt to claw some ground back on class 1 leader Andrew Outterside...

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A bit vague in the definitions seeing as classes 1,2,3,4 and 5 are all "road legal".


This is really a far more general "class" question. As with all such things, class splits favour some and put others at a disadvantage. How big a disadvantage? I don't know. It seems intuitive to suppose that windscreenless means faster, but at Curborough it isn't going to mean very much because the speeds never get that high.


The club events seem to have a good balance of "bring your car and drive" simplicity. There are a significant number of cars that were either original equipment fitted with aeroscreens or have been converted. These cars sport varying engine specs. I think the original question suggests a good proposition - if windscreenless (meaning without full windscreen) is faster, why not make it easier for sprinters to be "windscreenless for the day" without having to worry about aeroscreens or class boundaries - the grasp for putative benefit is then left in the hands of the competitor.


Seems fair.



253 BHP K-seriesteeth.gif, no gearboxbum.gifid=red>

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I originally took my screen off due to the stone chip damage it was receiving on airfield trackdays. I actually prefer driving with no screen or doors and wearing a FF crash helmet. The buffeting is much less, and top speed has gone up by 6mph!


Now I need to know if I have to replace the screen for Saturday (Class 2). Definitive answer please?

Where does this leave all the aeroscreen'd SuperLight types? Surely that set-up is road legal, and therefore must be acceptable in the road-going classes?

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First of all, well done to Graham Lyall for taking over as comp sec. But what a can of worms to have to detail with on his first event...


Mike was the type of person I was refering to in my last posting - he doesn't have a screen and it would seem unfair to make him go out and buy one for the sprint, especially since he may have happily competed at the first Curborough event like that.


I doubt a screen makes much difference around Curborough, but MIRA could a different propersition. I'm loathed to leave my screen on by a gentleman's agreement, then find I'm beaten by someone on the day who doesn't have a screen fitted (bacause they haven't read the forum (there are some people who don't!) or because they don't have one). For my two-pennies-worth, stick with the Curoborough reg of having to have a screen or aeroscreen.


Mike - if it is decided we need full windscreens, I do have a spare screen if you've got the stachions to fit it to.

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To clarify?


The definition by the MSA of 'windscreen' (section P, page 238 of the 2002 Blue Book) reads,


"A transparent shield located in front of vehicle occupants to protect from the wind and airborne particles. The requirement can be waived for single seater and open sports cars"


So, coupled with L10.3.9 I think the L7Club is on safe ground to write 'windscreens not required' into the SRs for its Sprints.


The original regulations for the Curborough Sprints organised by the club to MSA regs required List1A or Yokohama A032R tyres and full windscreens for the roadgoing classes. This basically meant that 32R's were mandatory to be competitive, so regular road going sprinters were discouraged, and many standard Caterham models were placed in the 'open' class. At Curborough there is very little if any advantage to be had from removing the windscreen, and I don't see screened runners putting their hoods up to reduce drag. So simply removing the requirement for a full windscreen seems fair enough.


At MIRA (and Llandow?) speeds are much higher, so the windscreen will cost rather more in performance. But since removing it takes time not money it surely isn't a barrier to the motivated.




Edited by - Paul Ranson on 18 Jun 2002 13:58:51

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Any chance of a definitive answer on aeroscreens this afternoon, as tonight's my last chance to fit it prior to Saturday. Unless its decided that I would be thrown out at scrutineering because of it, I feel I really have to take advantage of it, being at a power and tyre disadvantage in class 1...
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Dear All


Sorry for the delay, I've been away working.


In order to clarify the situation at this late stage all cars competing at MIRA will be expected to have a windscreen of some sort that is usually fitted to a Caterham (ie: Full windscreen, aeroscreen or deflector)as has been the case at all previous events.


This has been the case at all previous club events and having checked with Roger tonight we cannot remember when a car has competed without a screen of any description.


The thinking behind this is that the club events are an opportunity for a lot of owners to turn up and compete in their car without having to make huge alterations to gain competive advantage (another can of worms opened confused.gif)


I didn't really want to get into this kind of debate within a couple of weeks of taking over( give me a chance guys and gals) so I hope this is the end of this one for MIRA


At the end of the day its about taking part and having fun so I'll see you all there on Saturday.


(ps weather forecast looks bleak and theres not a lot of cover at MIRA, you have been warned teeth.gif






confused.gifNew Competition Secretaryid=blue> confused.gif

cool.gif1700 Live Axle X/Flow, got the engine upgrade, got the new tyres, now got to lose some weight id=red> cool.gif


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