Change from an FIA bar to a Cage - Thoughts ?

[greg]

Hi all,

 

I like the look of the roadsports cage and was wondering what the collective though was. Has anyone moved from an FIA bar to a cage? Is it a pain? Do you get better handling due to a stiffer car? I asume that the hood and doors still fit, not that I use the hood much, but I like the doors on.

 

What do people think?

 

Ta

 

Edited by - greg on 15 Jun 2002 15:40:22

[Laurence Wilson]

I know the hood does not fit. I doubt the doors would either.

 

Cheers! teeth.gifid=orange>

Laurence 'LOZ' Wilsonid=purple>

[greg]

Peardrop,

 

I thought the hood and doors fitted on the Roadsport cage(straight tubeing), but not on the SLR/full race cage (the one with the curved tubing in the "roof" section).

 

Are you saying that the roadsport cage will not allow use of the hood/doors?

 

Ta,

 

Greg, Q 880 RAE (Green/Ali XF)

[V7 SLR]

I've just moved from an FIA bar to a roadsport cage and can offer these pearls. Please bear in mind that I am talking about the cage with a single diagonal brace in the "roof" section:

 

1. The hood DOES fit over it. I have pictures to prove it. Mine isn't the extra height cage though which of course would prevent the use of the hood. You have to adjust the hood-tensioner bars slightly, and I can explain that in more detail if you're interested. The doors do fit. They only DON'T fit if you have side impact protection. You may have to move the mirrors forward an inch or two though because the nut holding the mirror onto the door fouled the front strut of the cage. I now have a slightly open front to the doors, which at the moment acts as a air-scoop and keeps my elbow cool. Obviously, in the rain, I'll get wet but I'm going to engineer another strap to pull the door in and attach it to the cage.

 

2. I wouldn't fit the bolts under the FIA bar because it's too much trouble for arguable gain. Unfortunately, the cage doesn't have the triangular plate where the main hoop connects to the car, so you really must use the "under" bolts to give you 6 mounting points.

 

3. I spent hours trying to force the front of the cage down onto the new holes I'd drilled to expose the welded-in nuts at the front (your chassis will have them if it's relatively new). The cage dropped into place once I'd drilled a pop rivet out from each side though... the rivets that hold the inner panel to the chassis.

 

4. I hurt my head and knee getting in and out for the first week. Then, amazingly, I learned how to get in and out less painfully.

 

5. I couldn't quantify that it definitely improves torsional rigidity but my gut-feeling is that it does. The whole car feels stiffer now and doesn't seem to creak as much. I could have convinced myself of this though.

 

6. If you use WHIMPS you can remove the tension straps and press-stud them straight onto the cage rear braces as they're in the right place. I can provide pictures if interested.

 

Happy to talk about it if you want to call. It was one of the best things I did to V7.

 

Nig - 07973 347791

[Laurence Wilson]

Sorry. I didn't know there was more than one type.

 

Cheers! teeth.gifid=orange>

Laurence 'LOZ' Wilsonid=purple>

[greg]

I've just realised that I've posted this to chitchat, and not techtalk - appologies.

 

Nig,

 

Thanks for that. But I've a few questions.

 

You've made me realise that my Chassis (1993) is probably too old for the special bots at the front.

 

So, Does anyone know when these bolts appeared (1996 universal chassis perhaps?)

 

I do not plan fitting the side impact bars, so from what you are saying the doors should be ok.

 

I get what you mean about the mirror nuts/bolts fouling the cage.

 

Does the cage push the front of the doors out a bit ? Do you think you would be able to get them to close/fit flushly to prevent unwanted water ingress in inclement weather?

 

Sounds like those underbolts may result in more tools, shame ....

 

Thanks for the imput.

 

Greg, Q 880 RAE (Green/Ali XF)

[V7 SLR]

Greg,

 

The underbolts just need a socket set. Nothing more complex.

 

Don't know what age the chassis bolts were introduced as standard. Caterham should be able to tell you. you may need to check whether there's any difference between live axle and de dion. Mine's de dion. Just make sure you buy the correct cage (assuming there's any difference). Will you buy new or second hand? I got my s/h and it's fine, although I had to make up my own bolts. The underbolts are of a specifically shallow-headed design and the rear braces, where they connect to the bodywork, need collars over the bolts. Again, it's probably easier to explain if you want to call me, but suffice to say it was a relatively easy job... well it would be if I did it a second time. smile.gif

 

The doors are pushed out only slightly. if you press the door from the outside, with your finger, you can see where you would need to install another strap to bring it all back in line. Not really a problem and it lines up with the foreward strut of the cage anyway so you could wrap your new strap around it. The problem is the metal strip in the doors which are straight where perhaps they should bend around the cage. If you didn't have door-mounted mirrors you could bend this everso slightly to compensate but as the mirrors are right where you'd need to bend it, this is impossible.

 

Please note that this is on my car. I reckon the tolerances are so wide that other people may not experience this.

 

Edited by - V7 SLR on 15 Jun 2002 17:29:38

[AndyPandy]

Where are you getting your cage from-direct from caterham..?

How much are they cos I want one too.

 

Cheers

 

teeth.gif Superlight 143 teeth.gif

[greg]

Thanks,

 

Looking at the parts CD the bar fits post '90 Dedion Cars, but I understand they made some to fit Live Axle cars. Mine is a dedion.

 

But I do not know if all post '90 cars have the hidden bolt/nut threads.

 

You are right that Caterham or Arch should know, but this is such a knowledgable collection of Se7ener's that I though someone should know!

 

I understand what you mean about the doors/cage bar. I suppose it depends on the individual fitting.

 

As a note on the mirrors, some new ones I got came with a plastic spacer, could this be used (choped in half to create a wedge to "cover" the "bended" bit, if you get what I mean?

 

I understand that another strap attached to either a poper or velcro would pull it back in.

 

Thanks for all those ideas V7.

 

AndyPandy,

 

You could get one from Caterham, or get one made by a Safety Cage type company. But for value reasons I'd go for the caterham one.

 

Greg, Q 880 RAE (Green/Ali XF)

[AndyPandy]

Thanks Greg

 

teeth.gif Superlight 143 teeth.gif

[Gridgway]

if you want a Roadsport cage, and are happy to by second hand try some of the race teams. Hyperion for example had a couple when I enquired. Unfortunately they don't fit the R500 and you can't get a 2nd hand SLR cage for luv nor munney.

 

Graham

[V7 SLR]

Ooh intrigued... why won't it fit an R500question.gif

[Gridgway]

Nig, I think it's coz the triangle bits from the chassis are missing. The ones at each end of the dash. They are important for the attachment of the roadsport cage.

 

Graham

[V7 SLR]

Ahah, interesting. I actually ground those plates off my cage. I bought it second hand and found that one in particular was loose, crappy welding, so I took them both off before I had the cage re-powdercoated (better powder coating than original anyway). I have no doubt that those triangular plates do add that extra safety but believe the sacrifice is limited.

 

I have those triangular plates on my dash, so if anyone wants to fit a roadsports cage to an R500 I'll happily do a swap.

[Tonycaterham]

I concur with V7 SLR. I upgraded? from an FIA cage to a full road sports cage. A bit of a bugger to fit as very tight and involved a fair bit of cursing. The paint also comes off fairly easily. I kept the triangulation plates. Car 'feels better' and one feel safer with full cage. Two problems; some people just cannot get in it. Recent track day instructor could just not get in my 7!!!. The other down side is everyone assumes it is an ex-graduate car??!!!

 

Tony

 

 

[Gary Furst]

Hi Greg,

 

I know you said you don't intend racing the car, but for those that do the roadsport cage might mean that you have to sit with your head tilted over when wearing a crash helmet. This is the reason that I went for a Superlight R type cage, as after sitting for 20 minutes in Mick Jones car waiting for the restart of the 6 hour Nurburgring race I was getting a sore neck!

 

 

[greg]

Thanks Gary I'd not thought of that. Suppose I should have a test try with a helmet on to see if I can fit without bending my neck as I can imagine it being a little uncomfortable to say the least.

 

 

Greg, Q 880 RAE (Green/Ali XF)

[felix.klauser]

There is a tall roadsport cage available that gives additional headroom but the hood won't fit without modification. If your head is too near the top of the cage you might want to consider modifying your seating position to lower your bum and/or slide it forward.

[Gridgway]

yep, I did my Roadsport race wit my head bumping against the the cage in the roadsport race car.

 

Graham

[scooby dooby doo]

AIUI there's the SL cage which is designed to be as good a cage as possible and a Roadsports cage designed to fit under the hood/over the screen.

 

So what's the point of a tall roadsports cage? it won't fit under the hood... And IMHO the SL cage looks nicer! smile.gif

 

ah. i think i've just realised the answer - the screen will still fit with a tall roadsports cage won't it? I'll go away again and come back once my SL cage is fitted...

 

Dave Hooper - dmch2@lineone.net

[felix.klauser]

And the tall roadsport cage would allow you to have the hood modified to fit if so desired.

 

I bought the roadsport cage because it was second-hand and cheap (£250) and would fit my car without needing the extra fixing points that the SLR cage does. If I ever needed to have any chassis work done I would probably add the SLR cage fitting and swap over. The roadsport cage is not a thing of beauty. But neither is a seven, is it?