Curborough Testing

[DaveK]

TO ALL COMPETITORS AT CURBOROUGH AUGUST SPRINT

 

In the interest of club motorsport and fair competition I would like to ask that all competitors refrain from testing prior to the August club sprint.

 

The basis of sprinting is to arrive on the day and to compete against your fellow drivers on an equal basis to show who is the best driver on the day.

 

This basic principle is plainly erroded by the fact that a minority will go testing in the days/weeks before the event so that they can gain a significant advantage in recent circuit knowledge.Whilst this is not really a problem in racing where you get a 20 min/10 lap practice to familiarise yourself, in a 60 sec sprint with two laps practice it is a huge advantage to the driver who has been there testing doing 20/30 laps to get up to speed.

 

If you are confident enough in your driving ability to think you have a chance to do well, Would you get any satisfaction from winning knowing that your win was aided by testing to optimise you/your car.

 

If you do feel that you need to drive curborough before the event,why not enter the marshalls sprint on the previous day and compete under the same conditions as the club sprint hence giving you a direct comparison.

 

I know that people will moan at the above, be realistic this is supposed to be club motorsport for FUN ,not F1.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

 

[Barbara Swift]

Does this mean you can't get a day then?

[Graham Perry]

Dave makes a good point. I can only ever get there for the one sprint and not test days or the marshalls sprint, so only ever really drive the course for 4 minutes a year. I know I could go a lot faster with practice but that isn't the point with sprints. I don't think we should do a name and shame thing as that would only stir up rancour in a friendly club, but it would be nice if this was voluntarily agreed by all applicants. You could have a box on the application form asking people to confirm that they haven't tested, but there is no guarentee that it wouldn't be abused.

 

Just a gentlemans (and ladies) agreement for everyone not to test immediatly prior to sprints would be nice.

[jonhill]

So you will be prepared to return your car back to std Caterham spec., so as not to gain any advantage over those who haven't spent thousands on engine mods?

 

I didn't think so.

[Gridgway]

I kind of understand what Dave is saying, but it doesn't seem to make much sense to me. It would surely make the club sprint the only area of motorsport where competitors don't test and practice! Why would I (for example) want to compete against 'curborough specialists' without ever having driven there when I could get a test day first?

 

So I understand the point, but I think it's wrong!

 

Graham

[Graham Perry]

Jon You make a good point. Its partly for that reason that I don't do all the events so don't qualify for the clubs sprint championsip. I have advocated for years locally, that sprint classes should be based on power to weight ratio, rather than engine type.(however I know that would open other cans of worms) It took Alex and the team a long long time and a great deal of debate to set the current classes, so the last thing we want to do is change them now.

[Richard Ince]

Dave

Are you taking part in the marshalls sprint the day before the club event?

How many runs have you (or will you) had at Curborough between the two sprints?

People need to practice to be able to close the gap on you!

 

 

 

 

Edited by - richard ince on 13 Jun 2002 20:59:33

[Lawrence_Z]

Living some 280 miles away from Curborough, I certainly won't be practicing.....

but I can't agree with you Dave, not this time.

 

There will always be "pot chasers" out there as you know, they use ALL the rules.....all the time....

I'd let them test all they want they're only fooling themselves smile.gif

 

The real fun is walking the track and then driving the car,

as long as one can go quicker than before then that's all that matters.

If not then tune the driver, then tune the car smile.gif

 

If your best is good enough you get a momento.

and if you're close to the "pot chasers" then

 

Nah nah na nah nah! smile.gif

 

Lawrence (happy to be a class 5 loser in such a classy class)

 

 

 

 

 

[David Ward]

I would tend to agree with your sentiments Dave. In the CCC Speed series that I am doing a few events in, there is very little or no chance of anyone going testing - I think the spirit and competition in the series is enhanced by this.

 

I feel the same as Lawrence in that I was happy to be a Class 5 loser in the light of the testing that had gone on and the high level of competition. If I get an entry for August I think I'll keep my 1A's on and return to the real (but no less competitive) world of Class 4! I think there is a world of difference between doing the marshalls' sprint on Saturday and spending part or all of a day repeatedly lapping the circuit...

 

I guess the only thing is Dave your comments may have slightly less credibility with some people coming, as they do, from the top of the time sheet!

[Alex Wong1697456877]

Dave,

 

You know my feelings on this and you know I disagree with you on this one. Motorsport is a sport like any other and practice before a sprint is just like training before a marathon. You don't have to do it but those who do will have an advantage. The basis of all sport is to train and practice to optimise and maximise your capabilities then compare them with another competitor.

 

As you know, I didn't implement a ban on testing as I felt it impossible to police and in principal, I see nothing wrong with it. It's no different from getting softer tyres or running a 240BHP engine or fitting carbon fibre bits everywhere. It is far more unfair that some people have faster cars than others but a class system can never be fair and anyway, it's car and driver vs car and driver. The last sprint was more competitive than ever in class 5 despite, if not because of the protagonists getting some practice in beforehand.

 

If testing was banned, I could still enter every Curborough sprint which would give me some 20 events to enter to prepare for the clubs event. If I was entered in another event where testing wasn't banned, I'd be mightily annoyed by the club taking a stance which is not consistant with any other Curborough sprint and thus putting me at a disadvantage for any other Curborough events I had entered.

 

I get great satisfaction from knowing my times have come from alot of hard work and practice. They have also come from alot of time spent constantly upgrading VDU. I'm not a gifted driver but I've worked hard to get my times. VDU isn't the best engineered Seven in the world but it's pretty much my own work and I have put hundreds of hours (with a considerable amount of help from Roger) into making it what it is. What's wrong with any of this? As I said, all sport favours the prepared and the dedicated.

 

If you ran the sprints on a power to weight class system, the blade would crucify everything in sight. Overall weight is just as critical to handling as power to weight is to pure straightline performance.

 

Whilst I certainly respect your opinion, I do feel that the more people practice, the more enjoyable and competitive the event will become. You might say that I have a geographical advantage but if Marius can travel from Germany to do the sprint, I don't see why anybody in this country couldn't travel to do some practice if they really wanted to win that badly.

 

If you're in it just for the fun of it then you should accept that you haven't put as much effort into it as someone who is in it to win and accept that as a result, you will not finish at the top of the table.

 

Bear in mind that I'm saying all of this despite the undoubted fact that if we ban testing now, I'd have a huge advantage having already done hundreds of laps at Curborough. I certainly wouldn't be alone in that advantage either.... The people who would suffer are the likes of Arnie, Peter and Richard who are undoubtedly very fast and good drivers but would find it harder to turn in a fast lap than I would without some practice as I've had so much more experience of this particular circuit in the past.

 

In any case, if you feel that strongly about it, I suggest you take your case to the competition sec (Graham Lyall) who might be more sympathetic to your request than I am smile.gif.

 

Alex Wong

www.alexwong.net

www.slipstream-trackdays.co.uk

         _________

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___ _//__T/__/_ ___

/ (_) (_)/

/`-'/o/ _______ /o/`-'/

/ /// ( VDU7X ) // /

/___/--_________/--/___/

 

 

 

 

Edited by - Alex Wong on 14 Jun 2002 00:35:15

[Jason Plato]

Blimey - this is all getting a bit serious is'nt it ???

 

If people want to test , then they will . There is no way it could be stopped.

There is only a few that go to all the effort of testing at curborough , the rest of us are in it for a good days action and chat .

 

Lets at least *try* and keep this whole club sprint series at least a little light hearted ?????

 

Dave

[KenEvans]

I'd like to add that there were many seasoned sprinters at the Curborough event. This venue is one of the best known in the country and therefore they will have competed here many times and maybe attended practice days too becoming more familiar with its late apex nature.

 

Anybody new or relatively new to sprinting should, I believe, be encouraged to practice. It can be most disheartening (I would imaginesmile.gif ) being beaten by a margin of 4, or 5 or 6 seconds in class by an experienced sprinter, this gap could be closed if beginners were encourage to practice. The experienced sprinter would almost certainly win in the end because his car is set up well, but competition would be closer and a fun day would still be had by all.

 

Ken

[Tonycaterham]

I agree with Ken

At the last club sprint having been beaten in class 5 by 6 seconds by an old friend Terry Dutton who has sprinted at Curborough for 20 years, compared to my total of about 10 runs in total, I need the practice!! The fact that Terry have another 40bhp and is a very good driver, has nothing to do with it!

 

Tony

[jonhill]

I would like to knock on the head this notion that testing at Curborough is the preserve of those with a fat wallet. Along with 6 other club members, I tested before the May sprint, and the cost to each of us was £40, with the slight excess going to NTL.

 

That's less than half an airfield day and about a quarter a typical track day. Not only that but we treated it as a club day out, had a good laugh, kicked tyres and generally enjoyed the freedom to tinker with roll bars etc. without worrying about missing session time. The fact I didn't even get an entry didn't mar the occasion for me at all, as I had a day blatting about a closed track in the sun. If that's not the point of being a member of a well supported car club then I don't know what is.

 

Cheers,

 

Jon

 

 

[No Nuts]

Dear All

 

I couldn't imagine anything more fun than a club (or any) sprint, whether or not you have practiced at the venue before.

 

I'm lucky enough to be down in class 2 where the competition is close and exciting and, thankfully, the kit can be kept fairly basic. I haven't made the time to go testing this year but if my competitors want to that's fine by me. I'm sure the reverse would apply.

 

Also in the local sprint series I have entered this year I am amazed how well my modest (standard 2001 Academy spec - 115bhp K de dion, apart from some decent 1a tyres) car goes. I'm also learning a huge amount on how to maximise your chances with minimum exposure to the venue. And that is fascinating, there is so much to learn.

 

But above all, and I hope I speak for us all here, I do it for FUN! So long as I've had a good day's close competition then that's great. If there's some silverware into the bargain, even better.

 

So, having said that, I'm out to win class 2 at MIRA but will probably do absolutely dismally now!! Either way, I plan to enjoy myself. See you there!

 

NN blush.gif

Lotus @ Herts

 

Edited by - No Nuts on 14 Jun 2002 10:29:36

[Peter Carmichael]

No, no, no, no, no!!!

 

You are all missing the point of DAve's reverse psychology. Dave has, if you remember, got himself a drive in Dave Edmands car. Surely we don't want him to test in the unfamiliar car before Curborough!!

 

Peterid=teal>

253 BHP K-seriesteeth.gif, no gearboxbum.gifid=red>

[Paul Ranson]

I heartily concur that testing should be banned. It's far too dangerous and expensive.

 

FWIW Curborough is one of the few Speed venues where one can do private testing for very reasonable sums. I would expect to test there once or twice a year even if I then didn't compete there at all.

 

Perhaps the Club Showdown Sprint could move to Prescott, there were 50 or so Porsches there at the last event.

 

Paul

[Peter Carmichael]

I take it that is expense measured by attrition rate of front wings (nosecones)...

 

Peterid=teal>

253 BHP K-seriesteeth.gif, no gearboxbum.gifid=red>

[edmandsd]

Lets not forget that Dave ran quicker in Arnie's car than Arnie did.

 

I'm sure Dave could crack 60's seconds quite comfortably in my car without the locked diff and with the 7 inch soft compound Avons on the front.........and without any practice.

 

I appreciate that this doesn't say a lot for my driving abilities !

[Peter Carmichael]

How would he do blindfold?

 

Peterid=teal>

253 BHP K-seriesteeth.gif, no gearboxbum.gifid=red>

[Gridgway]

now, there's an idea for a club sprint. Two up, the driver blindfolded and the passenger navigating!

Graham

[ECR]

Passengers ARE allowed at some MSA sprints (I have seen them !)

 

For ten points who can tell me how this is possible ?

 

(Think carefully)

 

(thats POINTS not PINTS)

 

[Silver 21]

Roger

 

In the Course Car!!!

 

 

 

Graham

 

cool.gif1700 Live Axle X/Flow, got the engine upgrade, got the new tyres, now got to lose some weight id=red> cool.gif

 

[ECR]

Passengers are allowed (in fact are compulsory I think) in events for three wheelers

(Morgan and the like).

The rationale is that they are actually motorcycle and sidecars and as such require a

passenger to balance the handling.

 

Very odd to see it though!

[Silver 21]

Roger

 

Of course you are right, I've seen trikes and Morgans etc at both Loton and Prescott running passengers, the funniest thing is the look on the passengers face, usually sheer horror.

 

One of the trikes we see on a regular basis has a different passenger at each event as they only ever manage one, apparently the technique to getting a new passenger is to get them drunk, bravado sets in and hey they volunteer!!! usually with the words 'How scary can it be?' (they find out the next day)

 

 

 

Graham

 

cool.gif1700 Live Axle X/Flow, got the engine upgrade, got the new tyres, now got to lose some weight id=red> cool.gif