KenEvans Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 .......and while I'm on my soapbox (see the Gatso post) did anybody see that programme on one of the obscure Sky channels about home built "Lo-cost"?? seven-inspired cars costing around £700 using scrapyard parts like Fiesta steering wheels and Sierra seats? Now I'm not against that sort of thing if they want to drive something that sounds and probably drives like a Fiesta with a blown exhaust. However, at least two of them in the lineup had what looked alarmingly like original FACTORY SUPPLIED SEVEN GRILLES. I paid £18,500 for a wonderful car on which I can legitemately put a Seven grille, yet these blokes had the cheek to add it to a car that was a heap of sh**e in comparison. (the line up was only glimpsed but since this was a programme about these lo-cost home built cars I'm sure they couldn't have been Sevens) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven in SA Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 Ken, I drive a Birkin and whilst I would love a prpoer seven grille I would not put one on. As far as I am concerned that is one more thing to look forward too when I get the real thing. Having said that I do have a Lotus badge on the front but that was on when I bought it. Nic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenEvans Posted June 10, 2002 Author Share Posted June 10, 2002 Is it only me who minds the Seven brand being besmirched on these Scrapyard Challenge cars then when we've paid for the best? (respec' to Nic for not considering putting a Seven grille on his Birkin) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarty Blat Fast Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 A couple of decades ago there was a fad for fitting Rolls Royce radiator grills to Minis, Beetles, Anglias, etc. I don't think anyone was fooled by that either. Most people class the Caterham as a "kit car". Here I am, 7 grill on a factory built VVC, pearlescent crimson, CF wings, leather interior, and I'm still asked if mine is a Robin Hood! If they know the difference they know, if they don't who cares? Absolutely no hitchhikersthumbsdown.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Wilson Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 No, you're not. I have a copy of Which kit? from a couple of years back. It has in it what is a particularly well thought out W*******d,fitted with a Lotus twin cam engine. I think it is the best W*******d I have seen, period. On the nose is a Lotus badge. For the fact it has a Lotus engine, that doesn't bother me. However, it also has a '7' grille. That single detail, I believe, is a bit cheap on the owners part. Not because they own a W*******d and not a Seven - I like W*******ds - but because they are utilising a Caterham trademark that W*******d themselves can't legally put on the cars. It doesn't even fit the W*******d nosecone! It also seems that Which Kit? weren't too impressed by this either. The publishers edited the front cover image, cutting the '7' off and continuing the horizontal lines across. Cheers! teeth.gifid=orange> Laurence 'LOZ' Wilsonid=purple> Edited by - Peardrop on 10 Jun 2002 17:52:27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul D Jones Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 So what, if its Factory suplied the factory is to blame if its that sacrid or its just money in the till they happily sold me indicator pods for a W*******d. and I told them what it was for and he said we sell lots of bits for the other makes so its money in the till at the end of the day. Paul. See My Car Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 Are you sure that you said "I'll be fitting these bits to a W*******d" and they said not to worry as they sell lots of bits for Lotus 7 replicas? I honestly don't believe that a firm who ended up taking W*******d to court would condone such a thing...and would guess that the spares person who did sell you the stuff would likely be in deep doo-doo if Caterham knew. Personally I'm not sure which camp I fall into. On the one hand, it's all money in the till that goes towards making the preferred brand stronger (though i guess it'd be stronger still if the parts purloiners bought whole cars), and yet on the other it's blurring the lines that mark out one marque from another. At the end of the day I agree with the "if they know..." sentiment. And it's got to be good that there's a broad range of marques catering for all budgets (Caterham's aren't what you'd call cheap after all). I also like to think that in many ways most of us bought the cars partly because of the lack of snob value... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 Whilst I would hate to think of myself as a snob, I will be totally honest with you all and admit that it does annoy me somewhat that the majority of people who see my car think its a Tiger, Dax, W*******d or similar replica. Not because I dislike these cars in anyway, but because my car cost me over £18,500 and I'm sick of people asking me if its a 'V8' and then scoffing when I say its got a 1.8 Rover engine. car park comments: "Couldn't you afford a real Lotus 7" "My car's two litre AND its got a proper roof and a stereo etc" "What is it based on?" There is some satisfaction though in not bending to any show off tendancies and putting my money into a car because I love driving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyPandy Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 When I picked up my 7 from Millwoods last month,we noticed a house opposite the garage with a mini scamp type kit car on the drive.Anyway,it had a seven grill attached to its front. It wasn't even a clone but an off-road vehicle mad.gif GRRRR...!!! mad.gif teeth.gif Superlight 143 teeth.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug phillips Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 I say let them dream. If anybody puts a Caterham badge/grille on a copy…. So what. It only means that they really wanted the real thing, just look at all the replicate kit cars on the market. It took me 20 odd years to buy my 7, I looked at W********D ‘S but kept strong to the faith and saved-up. Now I have the real thing (can you feel the force) opps showing my age. So what if Joe public thinks it’s a copy, SHOUT LOUD and tell them it’s a Caterham. Then p**s them off at the lights. Doug. (God how I love my car ....... and the wife) PS the wife reads this to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Wilson Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 Hmmm, I'm converted by your views Doug, well put smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbell Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 I`ve got a Birkin.....I have no desire to put a `7` grille on my car. Neither do I have any desire to own a Caterham. I am perfectly happy with my car. I have looked at almost all the se7ens out there and I have no hesitation in saying the Birkin is one of the best. I can`t say any make is the best because there are details on the Caterham I think are better, and details on the Birkin I feel are better. Many of these have been reinforced by comments from Caterham owners when they look at my car. However if you don`t want to see a 7 grille on other cars then complain to the factory. I have on a number of occasions enquired about various parts from Caterham, making it perfectly clear they weren`t for a Caterham and they had no problem in giving me details, prices etc....of course I was able to find the exact same parts somewhere else for a lot less money...but then that`s the story with their cars too ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny. Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 I've got no desire to put a Birkin badge my 7 or call them for bits regardless of price, I wouldn't visit the Birkin web site (if there is one), to inform them of this. Kenny SLR ps What's a Birkin? Edited by - kenny on 10 Jun 2002 21:58:58 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excess baggage Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 sbell, as you regard the Caterham as an inferior product why the hell are you logging on to this site? Phoning Caterham for advice about parts and then buying them from elsewhere shows that you are on a tight budget and don't know what your car is built from. I couldn't identify where every part on my car came from but I am certain I wouldn't phone W*******d for advice. Is a birkin a copy of a w*******d? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 Guys, dont worry about the Birkin, its from a land who's currency is worth 10% of what it was ten years ago, hence they are cheap. A Caterham would cost the equivalemt of a 5 bedroom house in SA! Worry instead about the Robin Hood. Almost every Robin Hood appears to have a Caterham nosecone, Lotus badges and the 7 logo grill! Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM siteid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Edited by - Fat Arnie on 10 Jun 2002 22:39:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFA Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 Sorry, to clarify........a 5 bedroom house in the South East.......... Fat Arn Visit the K2 RUM siteid=red> See the Lotus Seven Club 4 Counties Area Website hereid=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 FA, Worry instead about the Robin Hood. Almost every Robin Hood appears to have a Caterham nosecone, Lotus badges and the 7 logo grill! I run the local RH club (Beds, Buck, Oxon), I've yet to see a single Robin Hood sporting a Caterham nosecone or 7 logo grill.... Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 There was lots of Robin Hood and Lo-cost at Stoneleigh with 7 grills... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Brother Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 The thread here may be of interest to the "birkin-curious" Steve 79' Crossflow Supersprint "The original X-Power" www.Se7en-Up.co.uk id=green> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkprincess Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 What the owners of these clones seem to fail to realise is that there's considerably more to it than nosecones/grilles/light clusters that make the difference between Caterhams and, er, the other sh%&e. But what annoys me further is that the untrained eye (tin-top man/woman) does not realise that what are actually huge differences to folks like us are in fact minimal compared to, for example, the 'Mark 1' Ford Mainstream compared to the 'Mark 2'. I suppose (and fully expect) Caterham owners, i.e. proper Seven owners understand the importance of the history of the vehicle (in production as Lotus 7 since 1957, Caterham built kits for Lotus as early as 1959, official hand-over to Caterham in 1973, etc., etc.), better than those who have a mere copy of one, and so while companies like the aforementioned sh%&e keep churning out weak copies of the car it does somewhat dilute the historical importance that Caterham Cars has, and will continue to have, in the ongoing development of the original Lotus Super Seven. My soapbox has now been packed away again (something to sit on at LM!) Rid=blue> 9id=red> 9id=green> 2id=orange> Rid=black> Jid=teal> Mid=purple> biggrin.gifthumbsup.gifUid=red> Nid=blue> !!! thumbsup.gifbiggrin.gif teeth.gifteeth.gifteeth.gifteeth.gifteeth.gif45 hours!!! id=gold> teeth.gifteeth.gifteeth.gifteeth.gifteeth.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbell Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 I never said the Caterham was an inferior product! And unless I`m mistaken this website is not only for Caterham`s is it? It is for the Lotus 7 as well, something which I have an interest in as a classic car. All I`m saying is I didn`t buy a Birkin because I couldn`t afford a Caterham. I just felt it was better value for money. Lets keep it light hearted guys. I`m off back to the se7ens list where we can have a bit of fun as we talk. Have fun whatever you drive Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murph7355 Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 There are those that simply cannot afford a Caterham and never will be able to, no matter how much they save. There are also those who believe it absolute insanity to spend 9k+ on a daft little impractical sports car but for who half that amount (or significantly less) is acceptable for the driving pleasure gained. I personally think it helps us all for everyone to join in if they so wish, and if they choose to pay 7 Club subs (as I know some do) so much the better. No point trying to shoo people away. It just makes us all look like the snobs that we (mostly) aren't. The problem here lies in two camps: 1) Caterham Cars for apparently openly selling parts for cars they know not to be Caterhams. It's a bit hypocritical of them to sue Westfield only to sell parts they know to be destined for Westfields/Birkins/etc! If they cut the supply to non-owners, perhaps insisting on a valid chassis no. for all purchases of "Caterham only" bits, the problem would go away. Of course buying parts would become a more lengthy process, but that'd be the price you pay... If anyone from Caterham Cars still tunes in, what's your view? 2) Caterham owners flogging their 2nd hand parts to non-Caterham owning sources. If we're all that bothered about the issue, then we all too should stop selling bits to anyone who cannot prove they own a 7 (note - the majority of bits I've sold were collected by buyers in their Caterhams smile.gif). And let's face it, neither is going to happen. I think purging your own insecurities is a good thing and sit strapped into the cockpit *knowing* that you are in the real deal and all others are imitations. For better or for worse (and let's not try and kid ourselves that Caterhams are free from vices or even ideas that have been bettered on other marques). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony isherwood Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 Play them at their own game, put a Ferrari badge on the bonnet and Mondeo badge on the boot. They will still ask if bits come from Vauxhall ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 What the owners of these clones seem to fail to realise is that there's considerably more to it than nosecones/grilles/light clusters that make the difference between Caterhams and, er, the other sh%&e. But what annoys me further is that the untrained eye (tin-top man/woman) does not realise that what are actually huge differences to folks like us are in fact minimal compared to, for example, the 'Mark 1' Ford Mainstream compared to the 'Mark 2'. So what you are saying is that you dont want your Caterham to be confused with the other riff-raff by Joe Public.. I say what the **** does it matter, surely the whole point of owning the car isn't to display it as a lifestyle accessory, nor as an "I'm considerably richer than yow" statement, nor is it you doing your dutiful bit to continue the heritage (CC would laugh his balls off) but simply to go and drive and enjoy. There are many who simply can't afford their dream car and it is of course your job to remind them of that at every available opportunity and to heap scorn on the obvious enjoyment they get from building and driving their cars. Do you really think that they are all too dumb to realise the difference between their fun car and a Caterham? You'd do well to fully understand the history and nature of the L7 which was originally cobbled together from secondhand bits in the back of someones garage, much like many of the Locosts of today and sold at a knockdown price so that *anyone* could own one. Is that still true today? Oily Edited by - oilyhands on 11 Jun 2002 16:49:24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Crickmore Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 Uhm. Well said Mr Oilyhands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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