Rover foam sump baffle

[SteveSuper7]

Just planning a full service on my 1.8k Supersport, not had it long, first 7 for me. Can anyone confirm if it has a foam sump baffle? and what is it for? I presume I will need to change this to maintain good oil pressure? Help please.

[Mickrick]

Hi Steve, as far as I know, all the K series have this. My R300 had one. It's there to stop windage from the crankshaft foaming the oil up. A result of the sump being shallow.

It's quite easy to drop the sump off, and replace. Change the gasket at the same time. You will have to trim it to shape, as it comes unshaped.

You'll also have to dig around on here for some of the torque values, as they're not all in the book. Sorry I can't remember what they were.

The reason for changing it, apparently, is that it starts to break up after a while.

Hope this helps.

 

The older I get, the faster I was!

[oilyhands]

In my experience of around 250 Caterham engines.

 

i) the foam does nothing

ii) it has an alarming habit of breaking up and blocking the oil pickup with the result that oil delivery and pressure is compromised, this has lead *many* times to bearing/engine failure

iii) the design of the gasket and anglked isntallation of the engine stalls oil return to the sump, a simple modification to the sump gasket to return oil directly to the pickup can improve this.

 

There will be those who offer anecdotal evidence that their foam has not broken up and you should retain it, there will be others who give the opposite view and who have first hand experience of the carnage caused when the foam disintegrates. Oil is the lifeblood of the engine. In my opinion f there is any doubt that the foam might compromise it's delivery then it should ne unceremoniusly kicked into touch.

 

The success of a particualr system is not measured by the number of times it works but by the incidence and consequences of it's failure. The foam breaks up far to regulalry for it to be an isolated incidence.

 

My advice would be to ditch the foam and modify the gasket.

 

Oily

[oldbutnotslow]

Do a search on Foam Baffle and you will be there for a week reading the posts about this dreaded stuff.

 

Anyway

 

The "Lord High Oily Handed One" has spoken and It is your duty to follow his command!

 

BIN IT!!! *nono*

 

Grant Taylor - OBNS Motorsport

😬 1.6K with 183 BHP of Black and 'Stone Chip' excitement. 😬

 

[SteveSuper7]

Thanks to both of you. I could use either advice and if keeping the foam would obviously need to replace it at every oil change, which is going to be frequent.

If I ditch the foam, what mod do I need to do to the sump gasket?

[SteveSuper7]

What oil pressure should I see? When cold-ish I see up to 4 bar, this then drops to 2 bar when hot and flying. It also drops off completely, but leaves the gauge flicking from none, to 2 bar occasionally. I had presumed this was a problem with the sender.

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

It is - in my personal experience. Replaced it and now I have lovely oil pressure to be confident in !! Will dig out link to sump gasket mods in a moment and edit this post. Ditch the foam !

 

Edit 1 - photo here

7 related photos

 

Edit 2 - when removing the foam, do refit the cranky aluminium plate though. And bash some dimples in between the pips on the lower face of the oil pick-up unit (with it removed from the car) to improve the oil flow. Do a search in TechTalk - you'll find it somewhere.

 

Edited by - Stationary M25 Traveller on 3 Nov 2007 09:33:20

[Mickrick]

Why is it there in the first place then?

If it's changed regular, (as in oil and filters = cheaper than parts) it won't be a problem will it.

Did Caterham stop fitting it?

 

The older I get, the faster I was!

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

Just do a search in TechTalk for 'Sump and Foam' in the past 2 years (without the ' ')

 

Reading the endless discussions will keep you amused all weekend - and more.

 

7 related photos

[Roadsport06]

Try telling the people who have had it break up in just a few miles that it is OK if regularly changed.

I did the sump gasket mod two weeks ago, makes perfect sense as there was still plenty of oil in the engine after it had been draining over night.

Looking at the sump foam I was just left questioning why is it there. Figured it out, it was there to make me remove the sump and get it out

 

BRG and Yellow nose VU06 XZX

 

[Mickrick]

"a few miles" 🤔 ❗

 

The older I get, the faster I was!

[Roadsport06]

I think 70 miles for Myles, having found that this was not an isolated event I had been waiting to do my 6k service and took it out then.

Just need a mechanical oil pressure guage now as the one in the car is carp.

 

BRG and Yellow nose VU06 XZX

 

[Mickrick]

What oil was he using?

 

Specified CC oil, or other?

 

The older I get, the faster I was!

[Roadsport06]

There has been no common link with the oil used and break up, dont have it in your car. Its the devils spawn.

oilyhands has spoken on this one and no one should now question his wisdom

 

BRG and Yellow nose VU06 XZX

 

[Mickrick]

Oh O.K. then

 

The older I get, the faster I was!

[oldbutnotslow]

Without wishing to be rude read the posts Mickrick.

 

This stuff is evil. Myles will be along shortly I have no doubt or e-mail him and he will give you the full low down on his situation.

 

Mine had just started to fall to bits with some small bits stuck in the oil strainer. I was lucky others have not been and it has been a very costly learning process.

 

What does it do? Not very much as it sits above the windage plate so it is hard to see what practical use it can be.

 

Just take the advice offered and remove it ASAP or potentially suffer thy consequences.

 

Your money.... your choice.

 

Grant Taylor - OBNS Motorsport

😬 1.6K with 183 BHP of Black and 'Stone Chip' excitement. 😬

 

[Bob Simon]

One added note:

 

It's been found that the foam degradation problem can occur in cars with clamshell wings as well... 😬

 

 

-Bob

94 HPC VX Evo III

 

[Mickrick]

To be perfectly honest, as Oily said, I am one of those with anecdotal advice. I had no problem with mine. I changed it when I changed my sump, after contact with a raised manhole cover. The car had only coverd about 3000km, and the foam was perfect. hereI changed it anyway, as a matter of course, along with the gasket.

I've sold the car now, but the guy who bought it from me, has had no problem with it either.

OBNS,I have read the threads, in fact this was going on when I changed mine.

About the same time everyone was fitting those Helier sump baffles. I seem to remember the research and development consisted of some bloke driving around and round a traffic island watching a mechaical oil pressure gauge. needless to say I never bought one! If you're going to do that, you may as well do it properly, and fit a dry sump.

I apreciate some people had problems, but how many? I suspect it was either incompatible oil, or an isolated bad batch? I don't recall a CC re-call. How many K's have CC fitted over the years? IIRC they were building 500 a year at one point.

But like you say, you pay your money.....

 

Right, I'm off! [runs away cowering mode!]

 

The older I get, the faster I was!

[SteveSuper7]

Thanks eveyone. I'm going with the 'throw it away' advice. I'll take 'stationery's' pointers on the gasket mod in the process, anyone else got any further advice/improvements for oil flow whilst I'm at it? thanks a lot.

[Roadsport06]

Oily has seen many break up and so it is known not to be good in the car. CC are not one to do a recall unless it is driver safety, not engine, otherwise the oil pressure sender would be recalled and they'd fit mechanical ones for us all.

My foam was in perfect condition but I dont take the arguement that the foam is therefore OK if changed regularly or that others who have been unfortunate must be using the wrong oil etc.

I have tested my foam with various scenarios outside the car and have been unable to repeat the break up. I suspect with another piece I could repeat it. Its a bit hit and miss.

The suggestion that dry sump is the way to stop oil surge is correct but the foam almost certainly doesnt prevent against this in anyway, it serves no purpose but to cause the car to have a heart attack (blocked arteries).

 

BRG and Yellow nose VU06 XZX

 

[oilyhands]

In my experience an Apollo tank and drilled gasket go a long way towards solving the oil delivery problems.

 

Oily

[Mathew Rimmer]

Foam doesn't work, especially if you have had any head gasket problems, in which case it last only a few miles.

 

Hellier baffle doesn't work either (at least on track, might cope fine with tescos though as long as you take it easy...)

 

Dry sump is the only track solution, everything else is just living on borrowed time (speaking from experience)

 

Caterham oil pressure gauge is so heavily damped that most people will not realise they are in dangerous territory.

[SteveSuper7]

What's involved in converting to dry sump?

[Mathew Rimmer]

Financially about £1300 minimum so its not cheap, and if you run a standard engine you can blow a few up and replace from breakers before its economical. If you have any engine mods done it can quickly become cheap insurance. Caterham do 2 options, oil tank in bellhousing or external tank, and Pace do their own set up.