Great head

[AMMO]

I've been saying for a few years that if I saw a production cylinder head that was as good as or better than a Duratec one I'd tell you.

 

Yesterday a customer turned up with a cylinder head. The first time since seeing the Duratec a few years ago that I have gone wow! Previous to that the Nissan Touring car head from the mid '90's was what I compared everything to.

 

What I saw yesterday was every bit as good as a Duratec. Judging by the valve and port sizes it must produce similar air flow figures too.

 

It was a Honda Civic Type R head. Don't know anything about this engine but I can see it producing 300 bhp N/A. Don't know if anybody is getting these sort of figures. It would be nice to know.

 

See a pattern emerging? The Duratec (Mazda design) and the Honda are both Japanese. For years the Japanese have been producing quality cylinder heads on their bikes. Now it looks like their cars are following suit.

 

I think the engine is a bit on the large side. I have seen one sitting temporarily in a Caterham engine bay without engine mounts just to see if it would go. It looked tall and akward to install.

 

Still a great head and knowing what Honda are like I bet the rest of the engine is pretty good. Not seen one of these in bits yet.

 

I think I could be turning my attention towards Hondas as well as Duratecs. The Honda has to have a lot of potential.

 

AMMO

 

Edited by - Ammo on 3 Nov 2007 07:39:57

[Rob Walker]

Ammo,

 

You can get them to fit into the standard chassis 7 there at least two knocking around that I know of.

 

Rob

[AMMO]

Yeah Rob, I have heard of a couple but never seen one in the flesh. The only one I have seen was just sitting at Stuart Faulds workshop. Looked a bit of a nightmare to fit but as people already have it must be possible. Actually you can probably make anything fit if you are determined enough.

 

See also this from last year: http://blatchat.com/T.asp?id=121762

 

AMMO

[Mickrick]

Hi Ammo, I brought this up on a previous thread, I was wondering if anyone had fitted a Jap engine into a Caterham, and was wondering if it was ethical 😳

I mentioned the Type R engine, as my pal had test driven one of the latest Atoms, which had a supercharged Type R, producing just over 300bhp, and supposedly in a very mild state of tune, with lots more to come.

But I'm told they are heavier than a Duratec, and as you say quite tall.

 

As an aside, I've been following your thread on the 2ltr Duratec. Very interesting, and impressive results. But all this talk of horsepower. Isn't it torque that counts?

I'm planning to fit a 2.3 Duratec in my road car, and for me, I would prefer an engine that doesn't need to rev to produce it's grunt.

 

The older I get, the faster I was!

[Stuart Faulds]

The Honda K20a (Civic type R) is no heavier than the 2.0 duratec. It is taller though, and a right royal PITA to fit

[rj]

everyone.

 

It revs to 9k stock

 

It can "easily" be supercharged in an Elise to produce 400+ BHP

 

Seen one - from the behind on track 😳

 

In fact been seriously beeten by it on track!

 

/r

 

 

[timbo]

 

I seriously contemplated fitting a S2000 engine into my new SV but have gone 2.0L duratec. Main issue I am lead to believe would be (1). ground clearance/height (2) gearbox fittment. IT would be possible to fit the S2000 gearbox but would mean the engine sitting too far forward and a remote linkage required unless you are prepared to take the angle grinder to the chassis tunnel bracing and modify the footwells. However fitting a used S2000 eng/gearbox combo would also mean Q plate for new vehicle registration - not something I wanted on a 20K car. Another option would be fabrication of an adapter plate for a long input shaft caterham 6 speed with short raceline bellhousing - though crank may require reamed for spigot sizing. This is not a conversion for the mechanically inadpt. Furthermore, a used S200 engine/box is gonna cost you 2.5K. I much would this be installed and running with all the necessary modifications made? I think it makes the perforance per pound of the duratec an absolute bargain. Now if you where putting it into a Westfield starting from a new bare chassis things would be very much simplier.

 

Personally I have decided to go 230bhp with a completely std 2.0L engine bar pistons pocketed and a set of cams.

 

BUSA POWWWER

[AMMO]

I wasn't advocating the fitting of a Honda engine to a Caterham. The Duratec is still my preferred engine. I was just trying to point out what great potential the Honda has and that things have moved on in engine terms. To my knowledge there were no affordable production engines like the Duratec or Honda ten years ago. The Nissan from the mid '90's was heavily modified. With the Duratec or Honda you are almost there in terms of cylinder head.

 

 

Mickrick

 

Isn't it torque that counts? Depends what you want. Also if you look at the two premier motorsport series, F1 and Moto GP, they are chasing the rpm, relatively low torque route. Tell the BEC boys they have no torque! I think it was PC that wrote something about gearing and torque at the wheels a few years ago.

 

I decide to build the 2.2 Duratec so you could get the best of both worlds. Torque and rpm. I still want to build a 2 litre screamer though. I don't think of bigger engines anymore.

 

Year ago I was involved with single cylinder motorcycle racing. The trend was to go as big a capacity and as much as possible. Up to 800 cc singles were not uncommon. Managed to kick everybody's 🙆🏻 at Daytona with an engine that was only 580 cc that revved to 11,000 rpm. Big capacity and big torque is not everything.

 

RJ

 

Forced induction is cheating ! 😬

 

AMMO

[Jason Plato]

Is the s2000 engine the same dimensions and type as the civic r ?

[Mickrick]

Ammo, like you say, depends what you want. F1 Moto GP, track stuff. We have one track here in Mallorca, so all of my driving is on the road. I'm lazy, so it's nice to put my foot down, without having to change down

Screamers sound nice, but then again, so do thumpers

 

The older I get, the faster I was!

[Stuart Faulds]

The F20c in the S2000 is *not* the same size or weight as the K20a - it's both bigger and heavier.

[rj]

Ammo,

 

Forced induction is cheating !

 

I couldn't agree more, yet he still beat the 🙆🏻 out of me ☹️

 

 

[mickmade]

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o185/mickmade/IMG_0644.jpg

The differences in size and weight between the F20c and the Type R engine are so slight that they could both be easily fitted in a Caterham.

As shown in the link. ( just copy and paste )

Regards.

 

Edited by - mickmade on 4 Nov 2007 12:26:58

 

Edited by - mickmade on 4 Nov 2007 12:28:53

 

Edited by - mickmade on 4 Nov 2007 12:36:48

[Mickrick]

That's nice! 🥰 Which one is it? here

 

The older I get, the faster I was!

 

Edited by - Mickrick on 4 Nov 2007 13:55:28

 

Edited by - Mickrick on 4 Nov 2007 13:56:47

[Mickrick]

Do I see a carbon bell housing?

 

The older I get, the faster I was!

[mickmade]

F20C (s2000)

And yes.

Regards.

[Stuart Faulds]

Mick, if you can make either fit 'easily' into a Caterham, do you fancy a job?

[mickmade]

Stuart.

Can I please have a contact no .

regards Mick.

[AMMO]

Mick

 

I see box section tubing. What car is that in the photo?

 

Also the engine cam cover looks different to the engine I saw.

 

Looks like I need to do some more investigation on the engine front!

 

A Honda cylinder head I saw a few years ago was not as impressive as the Civic Type-R I saw the other day.

 

AMMO