CF price drop!!

[Unclefester]

I was amazed to find my local materials shop selling carbonfibre weave at only 20 euros per M² today, while carbon-Kevlar is still at 39!

 

Seems they found a new supplier. Prices had been very high (50 plus) for a long time as AirBus had bought it all!

 

What's the UK price?

 

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!...

😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek*

 

[RiF]

20 euros sounds far too cheap. Although manufacturing demands are catching up with demand the price has only dropped by £1 to £2 m2 depending on distributors /manufacturers. Even trade for quantity at the moment is more than 20 euros. Sounds like stock clearance somewhere. We buy a specific carbon, then woven by one company to give us our requirements. There is a lot of junk out on the market that will not give quality products (so we have found). Kevlar has continued to be cheaper than carbon.

 

RiF Driving one of the first Duratec 7, and building CA07BON for Henrietta 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon andCA07BON

 

Edited by - RiF on 19 Oct 2007 18:59:20

[Unclefester]

Richard, Do you have any pix of your woven material (before lamination...)...is there any way you or I could see anything which might indicate quality from a good photo?

 

In what way could it be inferior quality? What should I check?

 

I've never bought the stuff before, but my supplier, a local pro automotive paint supplier, says they've just found a new supplier themselves.

 

Maybe you should try them!

 

If you do want to try this stuff I'll happily order it in for you, or give you their number.

 

I'm going to have a crack at making a decent mould from my Pace DDS belt cover, as I reckon hand layup CF is going to be the most sensible approach to making the handful of units which I could realistically expect to sell.

 

I've done GRP mouldmaking so it should be pretty straightforward.

 

I also needed to make new CF panel for the instrument clusters on my Davrians, and for some large 'shoulder intakes' also on the Davrians.

 

It'll be my first attempt with CF though.

 

Any tips?

 

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!...

😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek*

 

 

Edited by - Unclefester on 18 Oct 2007 17:19:08

[Unclefester]

Interesting results from Googling CF prices in the UK, they seem to be all over the place from £22 to £72 per m² .

 

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!...

😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek*

 

[RiF]

The main diffence we find in carbon is quality of surface finish. The only way we can tell is by moulding it. As a beginner you won't be as fussy as we must be for commercial sales. The other thing that of course will change price is the weight of carbon weave. Most of the Caterham parts from the different manufactures us 200 to 220gm/m2 woven cloth. You can get lighter and considerably heavier.

As for advice It is a black art, trial, learn, try again. Resin consistancy and type will change everything. Anyone can make a laminate but strength, weight and finish is the art. Good luck 😬

 

RiF Driving one of the first Duratec 7, and building CA07BON for Henrietta 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon andCA07BON

[Billyboy]

more of a dark grey art with wovern pattern

 

You are right though it is an art!!

 

I think I will enter a carbon nose for the turner prize!

 

Why cant you get any carbon rear arches at the moment NO one seems to adversize them!

[Unclefester]

For 'hand layup' how do you normally apply the transparent gelcoat to

the inside of the mould?

 

On GRP I've always used a brush, but that can leave quite an uneven inner surface, which isn't important with GRP and a coloured gelcoat, which is normally painted later anyway.

 

The point is that if the transparent gelcoat used with CF is uneven, with brush marks, this will surely show to an extent in the final appearance of the CF weave.....do you ever spray the gelcoat into the mould for a more regular inner surface?

 

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!...

😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek*

 

 

Edited by - Unclefester on 19 Oct 2007 16:50:19

[RiF]

😬 MADE THE FIRST REAR WING 😬 this week. Not perfect but pretty good for a first attempt Also cracked making front wings after 29 for the bin ❗ Full carbon too. Twill 2x2 weave and finish is nice. Not 100% yet but not far off. Finish will look like the older carbon wings from CC. We will be advertising very soon. We are making new moulds in several different shapes for front wings and collecting the last few moulds (rear wing moulds) of K9 next week. If they are good then that will speed us up. The trials have been on an old rear wing mould of K9. Just I need more spare time Nose cones after that

 

As to gel coat!!!! One of the tricks of the trade is to get a quality surface. To make it look really good and be correct resin to carbon in the laminate is not something I can teach via the internet. As you can see above, even for me it has taken 30 mouldings to get 1 good one. It is a very fine balance of adjusting everything, especially the resin. As to gel coat we would never use one if you want to see the carbon at its best.

Sorry to be unhelpful but it really is a skill of trial and error untill you find the correct solution. Then a different mould can change everything, as can suppliers materials and the weather. Our wings are made under vacuum and that adds even more complications into the equation as we are finding out. As I said before, you can make a laminate but to get the standard that our customers require is terribly difficult. You might be better using polyester resins with the carbon as they are easier to work with and unless the part is structural it really won't matter.

 

RiF Driving one of the first Duratec 7, and building CA07BON for Henrietta 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon andCA07BON

[Unclefester]

Strewth!

 

I out of 30 sounds expensive!

 

I will just do a few experiments.

 

I have no intention of going into CF manufacture, just knocking out a few belt covers as it's got to be more sensible than thermoforming and cheaper than that or injection moulding for such small numbers.

 

Should be interesting.

 

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!...

😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek*

 

[RiF]

Yes expensive ☹️, only thing is once we have god a system working it is not bad for QC. Many carbon manufacturers reckon if they get 50% ok then that is acceptable. Being an industrial chemist helps means we can tweek resins etc.

For what you want to do just give it a go. It will do the job and should look better than other plastics anyway. Good luck.

 

RiF Driving one of the first Duratec 7, and building CA07BON for Henrietta 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon andCA07BON

[Unclefester]

I was intending using poly for this lot.

 

I'm also intending using a clear gelcoat, heated so it's a bit less viscous and will 'flow out' and self level as much as possible. I want a good thick outer clear layer with as perfect a finish as possible so it seems a good idea!

 

I know epoxy gives a stiffer structure, but as you say, none of these bits are particularly stressed, so I reckon it should be OK.

 

Have you tried poly clear gelcoating into the mould?

 

BTW I had a good look at the CF I bought, it does have one fault on the 2m², a sort of bobbled up bit, but it's tiny, and I'll just lose it in the cutting.

 

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds..ooooh hooo hooo!!...

😬 😬Abbey Road Time-Machine *eek*

 

 

Edited by - Unclefester on 21 Oct 2007 21:39:09

[MartinS]

Very interesting thread, I love reading about people making things like this 😬

 

M.

 

Martin Saunders

ohh, is it upgrade time? :)

[RiF]

No have not tried that gel coat. We usually blend our own. Don't forget that for every 5 degree increase in temp you roughly half your working time!

 

RiF Driving one of the first Duratec 7, and building CA07BON for Henrietta 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon andCA07BON