white marks on carbon wings

[Sven040207]

Not a very technical question but will post it here anyway.

 

I bought a 7 with carbon cyclewings and mudgards this year. Been able to drive it on Belgian roads for about 4 weeks and noticed that raindrops leave white marks as soon as they dry up. A normal clean with carshampoo doens't clean them off entirely. It needs a couple goes. It looks like the dirt gets in to the carbon. Am I using the wrong shampoo or is there another trick? Or is there something wrong with the Belgian rain

 

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[Paul Formston]

Hi Sven040207 this is very funny because Norman is having the same problem in France so may be it is the Rain

 

 

[irrotational]

I have recently had the same problem!...however last year when i drove through Belgium (and trust me it was raining!) I didn't!

 

The rain seems to have had an additive put in recently

 

 

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this is a local sig for local people!

[Stationary M25 Traveller]

A question for RiF surely ?

 

******************

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking...

 

And racing around to come up behind you again. new link to photos

[SLR No.77]

This appears to be a major problem on some CF panels - I've been very lucky and not experienced it. I did see some cycle wings over the weekend however that were almost completely white

 

Maybe when they're fully clean try spraying them with something like a monoflourocarbon to repel the water?

 

Stu.

 

www.superse7ens.co.uk..........the rebuild 😬

 

 

[k.russell]

think its something to do with the cure of the resin, like a bloom we used to get when spraying cellulose paint and lacquer. some times my fishing rods suffer from it on the eye whippings when i put them in my bag wet. It is a carbon problem and not a rain problem 😬

 

kevin R

black-ali HPC

[IanJ]

Comma Trim Black does the trick.

 

Ian 😬 1.6K SS Superlight #006

Penn Sevens Here

[SLR69]

Had the same problem in France at the Le Mans 24 Hours.

 

Cleaned it off with white spirit followed my MER Gel and now back to normal.

[6speedmanual]

Hi Sven

 

The white staining may be in the actual wax polish on the surface of the resin.

 

I had this problem when rain water was was left on the wings after polishing with MER. I was unable to rub the marks off with my finger (either wet or dry).

 

Repolishing the wings removed the stains (presumably because the new application MER disolved and/or polished away the previous layer of polish)

 

I decided to try some different polish so I've used "Black Triplewax" This has the added benefit of filling any micro pores with black rather than white residue. [ I would not recommend this product for some of the older CF wings which are matt surfaced with the CF very exposed as I think it would stain the weave]

 

I will report back once I've been out in the rain again!!

 

ps I note quite a few "car polishing" threads !! Everyone shining up their 7s for the Birthday Bash?

 

 

6SpeedManual

*tongue*There's no such thing as too much BHP per Ton 😬

[RiF]

Yes this has been a stange problem on certain carbon composites Norman has had serve problems ☹️ with his carbon and this is extremely strange baring in mind we did all the R&D at his house. The main problem was with a new resin system that we opted to use for the bonnet and the 2 front side skins. It was a high temperature rated resin system that gave us a safety margin. This has been attacked by water but only certain water?????

Our resin supplier did accelerated tests and so have we and could not replicate the problem. We had one other customer with some very light markings that would polish out. We reckon it is something in the water in certain areas. It is not acid attack, it is not bad curing, it is not inferior resins, it is not uncured amines on the surface. I know of others (with Caterham carbon not ours) that have holidayed in France and suddenly had the problem after years of no problems in the UK

The water can be rain or tap just to add to the confussion

We have now been running test samples in several different locations around the world to test UV and rain attack. The conclusions are that certain resins are more resilient than others to UV and water attack. Special coatings/protectants don't work!!! Tried many from the USA that cost me a fortune. Regular polish with plastic trim spray (silicon based) are the best, Mer bumper polish is the worse (although great initially it accelerates the problems later).

Best advise is spray with plastic trim spray regularily and advoid France and Belgium

We have now changed our bonnet and front side skin resin system (hence the delay in supply of bonnets and panels) and are using the same system I used for all my interior panels on my car (pre production materials). Our normal carbon is pretty good but Norman has seen some marking even on that but so far knowone else has around the world and there is a lot of parts out there now in all different conditions.

I have seen the same effect on all different manufacturers carbon and made by all processes. The white marks are attack of the resin and will eventually degrade with more water and UV, the rate will depend on many factors but if it is light don't panic, just polish and protect.

 

 

 

 

RiF Driving one of the first Duratec 7, and building CA07BON for Henrietta 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon andCA07BON

[Sven040207]

Thanks for all the replys. Avoiding Belgium might be a slight problem

 

As I'm leaving for the UK tomorrowmorning I guess the polishing is for after the 50th, or Angus should have some good stuff lying around.

 

CU all this weekend!

 

She's here...

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[Alaskossie]

I can attest that the water in the southwest US also leaves large, persistent white spots on the Caterham-supplied nosecone and wings of an R400 that some folks drove from Texas to the Lotus Ltd. gathering three weeks ago in Snowmass, Colorado USA.

 

Based partly on their experience, I am having my own cf wings clear-coated by a paint shop during my on-going Seven build. But the paint shop is having a devil of a time eliminating the dozens of little pin-hole pits in the finish that even three applications of clear-coat seem to leave, with mild sanding between coats.

[Paul McKenzie]

I wonder if this is relevant .

 

In a former life I was a reformed Microbiologist, living in Belgium, and responsible for technical sales of preservatives (not the French type though ).

 

We had a range of fungicides which were used for paint film preservation in order to protect against fungal blooms in the cured coatings. These worked extremely well except in humid maritime situations where they failed quite quickly. In Europe we had major problems in SW France, and there were also failures in several coastal areas of the States although I can't recall exactly where.

 

I reckon you might have a bug problem 😳, and the first thing I would do is look at the preservative system (if there is one) which is being used for the resin components. Also you should check whether that 'in-can' preservative system is also active as a cured film preservative, or if another film preservative is being used.

 

Paul

 

 

 

Edited by - Paul McKenzie on 12 Sep 2007 08:57:03

[RiF]

All very interesting

Paul, a fasinating thought? We have looked at so many options but never fungi!!! Definitely food for thought for us. Anything is possible.

 

RiF Driving one of the first Duratec 7, and building CA07BON for Henrietta 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon andCA07BON

[Al Navarro]

I have this spotting problem on the fronts only. Odd, IMHO, that the rears seems free of discoloration so far (2 years and a few heavy rain drives).

 

Does anyone know if the Fluke carbon fronts are more or less immune than the Caterham issue or RiF ones?

 

Also, what weave patttern is the standard Caterham carbon? 2 x 2 or some other thing?

 

Finally, has anyone tried fitting CSR type "aero" fenders to an older car yet? Is this a boneheaded move?

[The Boy]

Alaskossie, I'm on your side. Paint them body colour and the problem goes away Howevery I don't know what long term problems I may have. Caterham painted mine and I can't see any pin holes - but that doesn't mean there aren't any

 

Its finally finished :-) I'm out driving.

[RiF]

RiF ones don't.

Fluke don't but they are very heavy and made of mostly glassfibre.

CC front and rear have been seen to mark.

 

RiF Driving one of the first Duratec 7, and building CA07BON for Henrietta 😬 😬 😬.for pictures of 7 and carbon andCA07BON