Best for sprints/hillclimbs

[Trev G]

Looking for advice from some of the experienced hillclimbers/sprinters in the club.

What is the general opinion on cages for hillclimbs/sprints? Currently got a slr cage on my R500 at the moment which I gather is around 7 kgs heavier than a fia bar.Also tempted to change the 6 speed box for a sequential but having read previous posts Im not sure which if any would best suit. Any advice much appreciated.

[rgrigsby]

I'd leave the cage on, the weight difference isn't too important and it stiffens the car up considerably.

 

Opinions on sequentials very, if you can get one working well with paddle shifts they are are superb as demonstrated by Simon Rogers. BUT (and it's a big but) I think he is one of the few people to have really got one working well on a car engine.

 

I think pretty much every else runs a standard H pattern box, certainly the 6 speed caterham box works very well.

 

As an aside if you've got to the point were 7Kg's of weight makes a difference to your times you're probably beating all of us! 😬

 

Rob G

www.SpeedySeven.com

 

Edited by - rgrigsby on 1 Sep 2007 22:50:08

 

Edited by - rgrigsby on 1 Sep 2007 22:50:24

[Peter Carmichael]

Rob's advice on the cage is spot on. Far better to stiffen up the chassis than be that little bit lighter.

 

A sequential box is a nice thing to use ... if you don't have much inertia in your clutch/flywheel combination. It is worth having because you think it is nice to use, not because of any effect on the stopwatch. Not sure what the latest on sequential boxes and the class structure in the club sprints is.

[Mark Durrant]

I sprint an R500 in the clubs speed championship. I agree with both Rob and Peter that you should stick with the cage and certainly at my level of motorsport the biggest variable in the cars performsance is the driver .

 

Simon Rogers has a paddle shift operated sequential gearbox on his R400 and it works very well however, I have beaten him on the odd occasion this year and normally the best driver on the day wins.

 

It is worth spending money on getting the car set up properly, I have fitted Nitrons and had it flat floored. I also had the car remapped which has improved the driveability although it made little difference to the top end power.

 

If you really want the most competitive car in the paddock and the regs allow then I would suggest you would be better investing your money in a Hyabusa powered car.

 

HTH

 

 

 

Mark D

Comp Sec

 

[FlymoFraser]

Trev

 

Agree with all that has been said before, only point is that I am surprised there is as much as a 7kg difference , have you taken into account the petty strut in your weights?

 

Also, don't forget the bravery factor, having a cage around you may give you the confidence to press for that extra 10th, far more valuable than 7kg weight saving.

 

 

 

R287 Mobile Jaffa Cake- It's black at both ends with a smashing orangey bit in the middle here

[Trev G]

Many thanks for all the advice .Looks like I'll be leaving the cage on then!

Neil ,I didnt take into account the weight of the petty strut.

Mark, my car also has nitrons and the previous owner had the car properly set up for

trackdays.The only thing Ive altered is the front camber/toe (acb10s) but will

defenitely get it re-done over the winter.I will also look into a remap but can you

confirm that its only Minister that can do this? And youre right,the car is far

more capable than I am!!

Peter,I expected to hear that a sequential box would have been worth a good second

on an average run (looks like I need to practice quicker gearchanges)

Rob,I am at the stage of trying to find that last second or so hence trying to shed a

kilos here and there.

Thanks again for the advice guys.

[Alex Wong1697456877]

I found that I could go just as fast with a Quaife 5 speed and with the Caterham 6 as I did with the Elite Sequential. The times were very similar (within a few 10ths).

 

The Elite was absolutely fantastic on the track in that it was fun to use, but I don't believe it made you significantly quicker. The time it takes to change gear is such a small part of a lap time, and don't forget, only a fraction of the difference in time to change gear actually translates to your lap time as you're still travelling between gear changes.

 

I have yet to try a car based sequential that I would feel happy with for a road and track car.

[Alex Wong1697456877]

The odd kilo only matters when you're looking for hundreths.

 

I weigh about 40 Kg more than Rob and even with his greater driving skill, that translated to just under a second in the same car on the same day.

[Trev G]

Very intersting Alex,thanks.This is my 1st year doing the hillclimbing , so its sounds like a case of trying to tidy up the driving a bit and get to know the car more.

Cheers.

[neil.cavanagh]

on the gearboxes... having the ratios to suit the circuit would make more of a difference than chagne times of seq vs h-pattern.

 

At curbrough my 5 speed quaife box was just about bang on for ratios. I was changing gear 13 times on a run, compared to Gordon who came 3rd in my

class having to change 17 times (6 spd box).

[Paul Deslandes]

Another important ingredient in hillclimbing is bottom end torque. Lots of top end hp won't help as you hardly get to use it. This year I 'depowered' my SBD Vx and shifted the torque curve down by over 1000rpm so I now get useful torque from about 2500-3000 and the effect has been electric. The top end power is now 245 instead of 255bhp but it still revs to 8300 and it pulls like a train out of steep hairpins etc. Nearly 3 secs off previous personal best at Wiscombe!

 

"Power sells engines, torque wins races."

 

 

[Simon.Rogers1]

Trev

 

The gearbox thing is as others have mentioned far less of a time gain. But what it has stopped with my set up using paddles etc is the "loss" of a run due to a missed gear change. I can confidently say I haven't lost a run in nearly 2 seasons now due to a missed gear. This of course is not a gearbox issue it is a driver issue

 

So by removing a possible item which can cause an error I have improved my chances of staying in the game.

 

As for Mr Durrant you have to let him win now and again or else he might not do all the paperwork that allows us to play 😬

 

I would suggest that set up is the major thing to crack! Much more time to gain initially than power!

[Alex Wong1697456877]

It wasn't the 6 speed box that PP was using that needed so many changes, it was mating it to a 3.92 diff.

 

At Curborough on a double lapper, the combinations I've had have needed :

9 Changes using a 6 speed with 3.38 (missing a gear on the down shift to flagpole) Best time 59.59

5 Changes with a 5 speed Quaife and 3.92 (without missing any gears on down shift - mos of the circuit was in second.) Best time 59.02

20 with the Elite Sequential (custom ratios) with 3.92. Best time 59.9

 

There are of course many other factors (like my inconcistancy) but it seems the less shifts I do the quicker I go, mainly because I can concentrate more on braking and cornering.

 

I remember my fastest lap with the 5 speed was almost serene and effortless but my fastest with the Elite needed alot of agression and adrenaline. Isn't it funny how sometimes relaxing makes you go faster, and other times, a major amount of adrenaline helps you go faster. Sometimes I don't know whether to calm myself down or crank myself up before a run!

 

 

 

Edited by - Alex Wong on 3 Sep 2007 14:24:32

[Lord Summerisle]

if your worried about 7kgs on safety gear...

 

eat less pies and have a colonic irrigation

 

Its always funny to listen to the top guys in the british hillclimb arguing about weight - when you look at beanpole alike Scott Moran, and his shorter plumer father, Roger - always swapping times within a few 1/100ths

 

I post therefore I am

[DSL]

Unless you are absolutely sure you are extracting everything out of the car every run, whilst beating the best people with similar cars & can post times with-in a couple of 10th's of a second more or less every time, there will be a lot more to be gained from greater course experience & driving harder than worrying about the odd 7-10kg's

 

Edited by - DSL on 3 Sep 2007 14:55:54

[Mark Durrant]

Trev

 

I had the engine remapped by Steve Greenald on a rolling road. Many on here use him and he comes highly recommended but he is a long way from you.

 

Mark D

Comp Sec