1.6 Supersport upgrade - 1st impressions not so

[gin-fizz-whizz]

"Oh dear; what I have I done" I've been asking myself all the way home from Dartford.

 

Completely standard 1.6 Roadsport just been in for 6000K service, Cambelt replacement and SS upgrade. A critical factor for me (and this was explained at length when deciding whether to go for it) was not the change the character of the car at in-town speeds and to quote the CC ad: "not compromise the driveabilty of the car".

 

In the 3 years I've owned it, I can't recall i) stalling or ii) not have a on my face after a drive. Having lost count of the number of times I've stalled on downshifts and in traffic today I'm actually relieved to get home and out of the car which is very ☹️

 

What could have gone wrong? It's flying on throttle but on trailing throttle and downshifts it just dies. Every roundabout and slip road I felt like I needed 'L' plates.

 

The idle is erractic (900 - 1100 rpm when warm) and the whole experience is rather 'nervous'. It definitely is not smooth. The SS Cams are supposed to be faster but not aggressive - the R300 and courtesy car were not like this and they are more hightly tuned.

 

I wonder it the cambelt timing is somehow 'off' (sorry I'm no technician) or the ECU programming is missing something.

 

I looked forward so much to getting the car back today and am now at home most ☹️ ☹️.

 

What have others experienced? Have I made a mistake 🤔

 

 

Blue Roadsport with silver stripe. . . . .it does exactly what it says on the tin!

[Tony Whitley]

Is the idle "hunting" up and down, up and down? That's a sign of a faulty or disconnected throttle pot - the plug (on the throttle body) can come undone. I can't tie that in with the other faults you report. My car was a Supersport "from birth" and I've never experienced anything like what you describe.

[Gee Whizz]

hmm sounds like a problem with the upgrade rather than normal experience with the supersport.

 

My supersport is very forgiving in town can roll along along in 1st and 2nd without too many problems.

 

could it be the ECU learning the new engine characteristics before it settles down?

 

Sounds more like a dodgy sensor somewhere causing some confusion though. Call CC and see what they think.

 

Gavin

Striving to offer no value what so ever!

[CageyH]

I would take it back, and get them to fix it.

 

It does not sound right, and I am sure you have paid good money for the upgrade.

 

 

Only dead fish go with the flow....!

[Alan Bowler]

Not my experience of this upgrade - I was slightly worried that the SS cams would be good

for high revs, but terrible lower down, but that wasn't the case. I put verniers

on too. As others have said, double check everything is connected. Clutching

at straws, but maybe try an ECU reset. Maybe the cambelt is one tooth out.

As CC fitted it, I'd get them to look at it before you spend too much time on it.

Also double check the ECU plug connector is on really tight. Mine worked its

way loose, and caused a few odd problems.

You will be 😬 again when its sorted!

AB

 

[CageyH]

But as Alan said, get some verniers fitted, and while you are at it, you may as well get a larger throttle boddy!

 

Only dead fish go with the flow....!

[shn7]

Roy,

 

Check all the connectors have been reconnected to things like the throttle pot (engine side of the throttle body) and the IACV (a bit further forward). Sounds like somethings wrong with the upgrade or cam timing and a call to CC on Tuesday required if you can't find the problem.

 

Steve.

Sussex (West) AO

Not forgetting Percy the Polar Bear

[Mr Locust]

Presumably its and EU3 (post 2001) car. I actually found that the EU3 SS ecu runs better going slowly than the standard unit (when the cam timing is optimised). The idle should be strong if a little shaky. I found there is a knack to setting up the throttle stop too - post/blatmail if you want to know more.

 

Definitely worth a reset of the ECU in the first instance - key on, min>max 5 times on the throttle, key off and the idle valve will reset it's position. Listen for it chattering for a few seconds after reset to verify that it is working.

 

Stalling at junctions/on overrun etc sounds like insufficient air from the IACV (either blocked/restricted too much or just not working).

 

CC must be your first point of call if you don't want to mess yourself and you have only just had it back.

 

Ian

 

Green and Silver Roadsport 😬

 

Edited by - Mr Locust on 26 Aug 2007 23:32:14

[Johnty Lyons]

lambda connection.

 

jj

N.I. L7C AR 🙆🏻

Membership No.3927.

 

[gin-fizz-whizz]

Thanks for all the and to those who gave advice at Wings & Wheels yesterday.

 

Have checked all the obvious connections and reset the ECU as suggested. Tickover marginally better but still stalling at every opportunity and blim'em hard work at low speeds.

 

Had a nasty moment on Broadbridge Heath roundabout yesterday evening due to said stalling so it's on the phone/fax to CC first thing tomorrow !

 

Wife out on her first drive at the moment - I'm not expecting her to be impressed either!

 

 

Edited by - gin-fizz-whizz on 27 Aug 2007 08:42:06

[Gridgway]

don't fiddle, just take it back. It's not right. It's (arguably) the most proven k "upgrade" and should be a joy to drive.

 

Graham

[shn7]

In fact Roy assumig you're in Lisbon as usual see if you can get them to collect it as it's undriveable.

 

Steve.

Sussex (West) AO

Not forgetting Percy the Polar Bear

[gin-fizz-whizz]

Big to CC for handling this problem promptly. They sent a technician out to me to avoid my having to return to Dartford if it was a simple thing; and thankfully it was.

 

Diagnosis was a loose immobiliser wire and incorrect throttle stop settings. Reset all of those and low-speed running no much better . The 'spare' ECU he bought with him was not required.

 

Now just want to get out and enjoy myself.

 

 

 

Blue Roadsport with silver stripe. . . . .it does exactly what it says on the tin!

[shn7]

Nice one . Will you be at Dunsfold on Saturday Roy? I'll be marshalling again.

 

Steve.

Sussex (West) AO

Not forgetting Percy the Polar Bear

[gin-fizz-whizz]

Yes, PM session. If you want to have a 'non-hot' lap of the TG circuit then there's a spare seat with your name on it 😬

 

TBH I'm a little more confident now the cambelt has been changed (27K but over 6 years) so will be more willing to use some of those revs.

 

Also off on Baywatch on Sunday - quite a 7'ing week

 

 

 

Blue Roadsport with silver stripe. . . . .it does exactly what it says on the tin!

[shn7]

Don't worry about the revs so much. Think about the lines first. I'll see you there though not sure which area I'll be helping with.

 

Steve.

Sussex (West) AO

Not forgetting Percy the Polar Bear

[MartinWoodham]

glad you've got it sorted, not least because I encouraged you to do the upgrade! Enjoy it! 😬 😬

 

Martin

Aero'd supersported ex-Roadsports B...anyone got a cheap LSD?

[gin-fizz-whizz]

Thanks Martin

 

Blue Roadsport with silver stripe. . . . .it does exactly what it says on the tin!

[gin-fizz-whizz]

Have now completed 700 miles of mixed motoring; including an afternoon at Dunsfold on the Handling Day.

 

My nagging doubt is the adjustment to the throttle stop only addressed the symptom of the poor running not the root cause. A case of TADTS perhaps?

 

The car is definitely quicker once 'wound up', but it's not as settled in the lower revs and therefore a little harder to drive smoothly. I'm finding that I'm driving in a lower gear for the car to feel 'right'.

 

At Dunsfold, while the 0-60 was spot on, the slalom made me feel that the move of the power band up the rev range makes steering on the throttle much trickier. I really couldn't get the hang of that 'mini roundabout' cone!

 

Fuel consumption has risen from about 38-39mpg to mid 34-35mpg (excluding the DHD!) and this is surely due to the use of lower gears.

 

Never used any oil between services before but have just put 1/4l in to top-up.

 

Noisier? Yes - previoulsy was 94db and static test Dunsfold showed 100.8 ❗

 

More practice required 😬

 

 

Edited by - gin-fizz-whizz on 14 Sep 2007 08:38:05

[Mark Durrant]

The cam timing is a bit hit and miss with the standard Rover pulleys and I would recommend that you get a set of vernier pulleys fitted. This will ensure that you get the meximum out of your Supersport kit, it certainly did on my previous 7. DVA Power AKA Oilyhands can do this for you and he comes highly recommended

 

Mark D

Comp Sec

 

[gin-fizz-whizz]

Note the comments on the verniers and condsidered DVA instead of CC for the SS upgrade. However, it appears the CC warrantly will be invalidated if I fit the verniers so not an option for now.

 

Blue Roadsport with silver stripe. . . . .it does exactly what it says on the tin!

[Alan Bowler]

...it's pretty easy to put the standard pulleys back on afterwards, if you want to sell

the car back to CC at a later date (and always a strong market for used verniers).

Can't really comment re: Caterham warranty though. I guess they wouldn't be impressed if you fitted them without tightening properly, caused damage, and wanted a new engine from them. As their function is to make the timing "correct", they

do sound like a good idea for your issues though.

AB

[Mark Durrant]

How long is the warranty 🤔

 

Mark D

Comp Sec

 

[gin-fizz-whizz]

Mark: For the upgrade it's 12 months.

[Miura]

mmmh, what does the upgrade warranty cover? I doubt they would pay for any engine work such as head gasket failure. Camshafts don't fail so I would not worry too much about invalidating your warranty. Proper cam timing 9and a decent exhaust) make a big diffrence in terms of driveability and power