Paul Formston Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Hi have any of you seen the Roton head for the Kseries engine, it has no popet valves it has rotoary valves have a look on google put in Blitz world and then click on Roton and it tells you all about it. It looks great and there is a picture of the head for the K series Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Durrant Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 See here Mark D Comp Sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k80rum Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 ooer.. Very interesting 😶🌫️ It sounds as though Siemens may be up to something similar: "Camless engine Siemens Automotive is developing a second-generation electromagnetic valve train (EVT). The full-load capability of the system at maximum speeds has already been demonstrated in a 16-valve four-cylinder engine. The key component of the infinitely variable electromechanical valve train is an armature-position sensor that simultaneously assures energy- and noise-reducing-control characteristics. Each actuator has a position sensor and is individually electronically controlled. In this manner, the valve timing can be adjusted as required within the physical limits of actuator operation. Thus, this valve control technology results in reduced fuel consumption and emissions as well as improved torque in spark-ignited engines. The demonstration engine on a test dynamometer in Regensburg, Germany, is equipped with 16 valve actuators and the corresponding armature-position sensors, the Electronic Valve Control Unit (EVCU), a modified engine management Electronic Control Unit (ECU), and two cable rails connecting the actuators to the EVCU. The engine control transmits the actuator signals to the valve control system via a CAN bus. The system operates with an electrical distribution system voltage of 42 V generated by a crankshaft-mounted starter-generator. The actuators work according to the free spring-mass-oscillator principle. A special software algorithm is used to control the actuator coil currents so that the valves are decelerated to a speed near zero as they land - in conjunction with a switching time of barely three milliseconds. It was this very soft landing feature that permitted the advantages of a cam-controlled valve train - soft touchdown of the valves on the valve seat - to be transferred to the electromechanical principle. For the valves this means minimal wear and minimum noise generation. Without a software-based problem solution, the increased force exerted by the solenoid on the armature pole face as the air gap diminishes would result in very high impact speeds. This would produce mechanical and acoustic loads that would preclude continuous system operation. The EVCU's other responsibility - in addition to managing valve timing - is to take on actuator-specific tasks such as the current control in the actuator coils. The armature-position sensor installed in the actuator housing also supplies the current values using a safe actuator control mechanism and provides important diagnostic information." Darren E Website and Emerald maps library Superlight R #54 Edited by - k80rum on 13 Jul 2007 14:27:52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 mmm, rotary valves, nice mmm NSU ****el engine, also nice for about 10,000 miles ☹️ ......I suspect productionising for longevity might be the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 good to the profanity filter is working 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Perry Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Are Roton really saying they are hoping to make a 1000hp K series or are they talking about another engine ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Jono, Where did you find the word productionising ❗ ❗ Pity the profanity filter didn't remove that one ❗ Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nifty Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Didn't Arnie fit one of these into K2RUM 🤔 *tongue* Keep off the straight and narrow 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Formston Posted July 13, 2007 Author Share Posted July 13, 2007 Hi Nifty I don't know but even if he didn't he would tell every one he did Regards Paul 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elie boone Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Minerva had this style of engine in the 30's called a Knight engine if my memory is still fine. it was very good apart from some heafty oil consuption, i am sure with modern technology it will be much better on the oil consumption. Also Yamaha used the same style of valve in their famous RD350LC ( 2 stroke ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 I brought this up a couple of years back. the chap was based just outside Chester. He's a bit of an 🙆🏻 and I subsequently removed hos co name form my car, as he was always 'just about to get it in the car', but never ever in 14 months had a working prototype. See previous discussion here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Mill Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Rotary valves are nothing novel - Daimler were fond of them back in the 30's and the Bistol Centaurus aero engine used them. I'm more than a bit sceptical about the claim of the bike engine that produced the same output at 1/3 of the revs - suggests that the volumetric efficiency of the engine was extremely cr@p in the first place. And as for the electromagnetically actuated poppet valve thing I saw an article published by Lucas about their use of this for an experimental VVT system about 20 years ago. I remember that they operated the valves via a large adverse lever so the throw of the solenoids was quite small (but the forces of course were very big) Edited by - Colin Mill on 14 Jul 2007 14:49:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Richard Price Posted July 14, 2007 Area Representative Share Posted July 14, 2007 If it were a great idea, with significant benefits, all the major manufacturers would be using it! If it offered unresticted inlet and exhaust, then it would be great. However, for best effect, the inlet valve would need to be full fully open for the full duration of the induction stroke, and the exhaust valve for the full duration of the exhaust stroke, but closed when not required. Therfore, the rortary valves would need to be camed, not geared. All almost possible with modern electronic servo drives, but the cost, weight, and complexity would render it uneconomical! (but I don't belive it would work better than convensional design engines anyway!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mav Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 The website is the same old one he had when he was uk based. his patent (applied for, still apparantly) surrounds the material he proposes to use for the bearings / running surfaces of the 'cams'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nov-07 Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Don't confuse "Rotary valves" with "Sleeve valves". The Daimler "silent" Knight engine, and the Bristol radial aero engines, and the magnificent Napier Sabre were all sleeve valve types, where the valve mechanism is a reciprocating and rotating sleeve around the piston. The rotary valve mechanism appears to be a replacement for the camshaft/poppet valve arrangement in a normal cylinder head, so is a "bolt-on goody" 😬 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Mill Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 One reason why I'm not inclined to get too excited is that if you do the sums on volumetric efficiency on the 260+ BHP Duratec engines you find that they are achieving slightly over 100% volumetric efficiency (presumably due to resonances in the intake and/or the exhaust). F1 engines also achieve these sorts of volumetric efficiency at 19,000 rpm using poppet valves. I'm not sure what chance there is that this technology will advance things. A rotary valve system very similar to the one proposed was a feature of a model aircraft four-stroke engine back in the 1980s and it seems to have sunk without trace. Here is a site that lists just some of the rotary valve systems considered historically. As you can see there is nothing very novel about the Roton one Colin Edited by - Colin Mill on 14 Jul 2007 20:16:26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Carmichael Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 The initial ROTON engine was put on a bike engine and produced FULL POWER at only 1/3 of its normal rpm I presume this means PEAK power produced at 1/3 the revs and therefore the power PEAK being proportionally 1/3 the size of the original power peak give or take gains or losses in TORQUE which I'd bet on being lower than standard. It appears to me that no claim is made that the engine matches or exceeds the power of the standard bike from the carefully chosen words in the thinly disguised hyperbole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Nifty, I've read my post again You're right that was a shocker, I still can't believe I used it My 2 good drinking buddies are in manufacturing and both use that word, that's the only excuse I can think of ❗ Solly 😶🌫️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now