2 L Duratec wet sump on a Caterham ?

[Jason Plato]

Does the 2 L Duratec *need* a dry sump system ?.

 

Has the wet sump option from Raceline been proven on track ?

 

ta

 

Dave

 

[I.Mupferit]

Difficult to say whether you actually need a dry sump. Would the use be predominantly track or road? If mainly track then it would be sensible to go dry sump and Raceline have now developed their own which, I believe, uses the standard internal component as the pressure pump.

 

Yes the Raceline wet sump has been proven on track in many different cars I believe but why not speak to Peter McEwen at Raceline who, despite the vested interest, will give you an honest assessment. I would most definitely trust his judgement.

 

Brent

 

2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive

R 417.39 😬

 

Edited by - Brent Chiswick on 27 Jul 2006 08:40:15

[Dobuy]

I have used the Raceline wetsump on the track about 8 times in my old Raceline 2.0. I ran it on slicks and at temperatures up to 45'c with no oil pressure problems, as long as it was filled properly!!

However, it is critical to make sure you have at least 4.5 litres of oil at a minimum. I had a problem with a leaking dipstick tube joint (o-ring perished) which caused me to loose a couple of litres of oil. This did not do the engine any good. In hindsight I should have smeared silicone round the joint of the tube and sump.

In summary, as long as you have the right level of oil, then you will have no problems with the wet sump.

 

Duratec SV, built in Dubai

[CageyH]

Dave, if you are getting rid of your K series dry sump, let me know

[AMMO]

Dave

 

I have a hell of a job trying to convince people to stay with the wet sump. I usually have to give in and fit a Pace dry sump just to keep the customers happy.

 

I have friend who races a silouette space frame car on 10" slicks front and rear. He worked out that he could save 11 kilos by running a wet sump. His lap times are faster than Touring Cars and he has no problems in two seasons of racing.

 

AMMO

[Jason Plato]

Cagey .....the voltures are circulating 😬

 

Ammo - What configuration is the silouette engine ?. Is it longitudinal / rear etc ?.

 

also - can I telephone you Ammo ?.

 

ta

Dave

[CageyH]

You abandoning the good ship K-series?

[AMMO]

Dave

 

Call me on 01394 383499 now or 07860 494064 later as I will be in the workshop around 11ish.

 

AMMO

[Jason Plato]

You abandoning the good ship K-series?

 

I honestly dont know yet - I'm taking a step back and considering alternatives at the moment

[Iain A]

Hi

 

I run a Raceline baffled sump pan on my 220 bhp car. I have done over a dozen trackdays, usually on 7" slicks with no problem. As has been mentioned you need to make sure that there is 5 litres of oil in there.

I like the simplicity of the wet sump.. I know of too many people who have had failures of dry sump systems (a rubber band drive on a critical thing like this???? not for me thanks), so am happy with my set up.

 

One of the Duratectives

[Jason Plato]

if one was to use a wet sump pan - to increase the oil volume I guess an oil cooler could be plumbed in also - the 5 L capacity is a little low ?, maybe a cooler on a thermostat as I imagine the oil temps may be a little higher using a wet sump pan ?.

 

 

[CageyH]

I thought you used oil coolers with a thermostat, so the oil could warm up quickly/normally to start off with? Then when it reaches a high temperature the thermostat opens and the cooler comes into play. You would need to take into account the capacity of the cooler and the cooler feed and return pipes.

[CageyH]

Why not put a 2.0 V8 in there?

[Jason Plato]

Why not put a 2.0 V8 in there

 

cos I have no desire to pour £25,000 into a silly car shaped like a coffin just so that I can hit the tyre wall 20 mph faster 😬

[CageyH]

£25k 😳

Firkin hell 😳

[simonbell]

I`ve been running the wet sump, and its been hammered round the track on two occasions without any problems.

 

I don`t like the idea of dry sump systems with external belts, I might consider the Cosworth one using the internal pump but I don`t really need it. It might improve sump clearance for road use............

 

 

 

Simon Bell - Caterham 7 Duratec R

I`ve seen the future.....and it`s powered by duratec Check out the website here

[Jason Plato]

how much clearance is there below a wetsump duranail ?

 

or maybe its better to ask - how far does the sump pan on a 2 L Duranail, protrude beneath the chassis rails on a std chassis ?

[I.Mupferit]

It's not that far and it certainly is no lower than the bottom of the bellhousing so if it were any higher, a drain cover might miss the sump but still catch the gearbox

 

Brent

 

2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive

R 417.39 😬

[Dobuy]

if one was to use a wet sump pan - to increase the oil volume I guess an oil cooler could be plumbed in also - the 5 L capacity is a little low ?

Dave its not the amount of oil in the system, it is about having th ecorrect level and keeping the oil pick-up covered at all times. When I had my problem I had plenty in the system as I had a oil cooler, just not enough in the sump ☹️

When you install the sump, pour in 5 litres (or whatever Peter from Raceline says) run your engine until its hot, shut it down and mark (engrave) where the oil level is on the dipstick. You will then know exactly when you have the correct level of oil in your engine and you will never have any probs, as you can check it hot anytime. If you put an oil cooler on fill engine until (when hot) it matches said mark, regardless of amount of oil it takes.

 

Duratec SV, built in Dubai

[Jason Plato]

I appreciate that the level must be maintained above the minimum to allow the pick up to function

 

I was considering / thinking aloud, that 5 L is just not a lot of oil in the total system for heat management and the size of the engine - I imagine this small volume could overheat quite quickly in a 230 -250 bhp engine on track . 🤔

[I.Mupferit]

It's exactly the same volume in my 240 bhp 2.3L Duratec and I'm pretty sure if the oil doesn't overheat in the temperatures experienced on track in Dubai (by Neil, not me), you should be ok in the UK.

 

Duratecs do seem to run very cool and the amount of cooling fins on the Raceline sump will certainly help in this respect. Their wet sump really is a work of art with very effective baffling and none of this foam block malarkey to concern yourself with.

 

Brent

 

2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive

R 417.39 😬

[Jason Plato]

*thumbup*

 

Ok

 

sounds like the wet sump is OK then that will save loads of weight ( and boy do we need to do that with this big muther - eh Brent .....)

 

 

[I.Mupferit]

As someone said to me earlier..........I won't bite today ❗ 😬

 

Brent

 

2.3 DURATEC SV Reassuringly Expensive

R 417.39 😬

[neil.cavanagh]

But Dave when you see the really heavy front suspension that Brent has on this SeVen you can see why he isn't worried too much about weight saving! 😬 😬 😬

[Dobuy]

To put it into context, my 226bhp Raceline 2.0 without oil cooler ran at about 100'c oil temp in ambient temps of about 40'c. My biggest problem was ticking over water temperatures, until I fitted a mother of a cooling fan. I know of nobody who has had cooling problems with a Duratec in blighty.

 

Duratec SV, built in Dubai