Fathead Posted July 23, 2006 Posted July 23, 2006 Oh dear.... No water left in the expansion bottle!!! - Evidence of a radiator leak (less than year old caterham triple pass rad!) No oil pressure!!!! Engine sounds like a bag of nails and it overheated.... Am I out of luck? Tom The most southerly uk blatter 😬Yellow 1.6 Supersport 😬 Photos here Edited by - fathead on 26 Jul 2006 14:29:04
Fathead Posted July 23, 2006 Author Posted July 23, 2006 seems to be what looks like water mixed with the oil on the dipstick and also a white substance on the insode of the oil filler cap.... looks bad huh? Tom The most southerly uk blatter 😬Yellow 1.6 Supersport 😬 Photos here
Colin Mill Posted July 23, 2006 Posted July 23, 2006 Yes, that sounds very unhappy! Sorry for your bad luck. Having had to do a head gasket on another car (cinquecento) recently I had a chat to a friend who runs a garage and he gave me a few useful bits of info. First, the good news - he has not had a modern engine run the big ends or mains due to overheating so as long as it has not picked up on the bores the problems are almost always confined to the top end. He reckons you should always have a K series head crack tested before re-fitting. Apparently a crack between nos 3 and 4 cylinders is not uncommon. The hydraulic tappets can make it very difficult to re-start after the rebuild. He has sometimes had to tow start a car about half a mile before it will start. I wish there were a few more alarms on the engine. A fluid level alarm on the header tank might just save such situations.
Gridgway Posted July 23, 2006 Posted July 23, 2006 seen quite a few rebuilt heads go on k series in my garage and never seen anything like... "The hydraulic tappets can make it very difficult to re-start after the rebuild. He has sometimes had to tow start a car about half a mile before it will start." If it has overheated badly, dumped all its coolant into the oil, sounds like a bag of bolts and has no OP, then I would suggest that further diagnostics are required than just the head. You will need to check middle and bottom as well. Graham
Colin Mill Posted July 23, 2006 Posted July 23, 2006 Hi Graham Well I can't vouch for the hydraulic tappets on the K but his prediction was spot on with the hydraulic tappets on the cinquecento - it took bl00dy ages to get it cranked up! Colin
Fathead Posted July 24, 2006 Author Posted July 24, 2006 oh dear.... looks like a major rebuild may be on the cards huh? What damage is likely to have occured? Tom The most southerly uk blatter 😬Yellow 1.6 Supersport 😬 Photos here
Colin Mill Posted July 24, 2006 Posted July 24, 2006 Hard to say - the lack of oil pressure could be simple the head gasket - once the gasket is allowing a full and frank exchange between the coolant and the oil etc you are not exactly going to get a lot of pressure. I think the big question is how far/long might it have run without oil pressure?
Fathead Posted July 24, 2006 Author Posted July 24, 2006 Probably about 2-3miles ☹️ in total Tom The most southerly uk blatter 😬Yellow 1.6 Supersport 😬 Photos here
Sheds Moderator Posted July 24, 2006 Posted July 24, 2006 Nasty. My advice to you FWIW is to pull off the sump and undo a big end cap. This will tell you the state of the engine. Hopefully it will be OK and you have just the HG to replace, then skim and crack test the head. New belts, put it back together and good luck. BTW I have never heard of a car refusing to start for empty hydraulic tappets. They generally start and clatter a bit until the oil pumps them up.
Colin Mill Posted July 24, 2006 Posted July 24, 2006 Sounds like a good plan. On the tappet front I was also somewhat surprised that the hydraulic tappets could make a big enough difference to the valve timing - I guess it depends on the design - the Haynes manual for the E34 BMW carries a warning about attempting to start one of the engines (the M40 I think) with the tappets empty. Anyway, Trevor's predictions for the Fiat were spot on even down to the fact that it cranked over faster than normal till it sorted itself out. Presumably if the whole thing is full of mayo it takes longer than normal to do this! Colin Edited by - Colin Mill on 24 Jul 2006 18:55:54
Fathead Posted July 26, 2006 Author Posted July 26, 2006 I have had advice that due to the bad engine sounds of my engine the bearings are likely to have gone and I am going to need a full engine rebuild... ☹️ John Howe has very very kindly offered to help me fix it It is currently a 1600 super sport with around 32k on the clock (12k in the last year by me 😬) I have been porting a head at home with a friend (cut proper valve seats and taken out alot of metal in the ports) We have skimmed quite a bit off the head to raise the CR (40 thou i think from memory) but also reshaped the combustion chamber to improve air flow around the valves (standard ones). I am unsure (due to the fact i possibly don't trust my friends adive that much 😬) that it will run on the standard SS ecu with these mods - do i need a remappable ecu (I can't afford one so will skim my current head if so!) Tom The most southerly uk blatter 😬Yellow 1.6 Supersport 😬 Photos here
Fathead Posted July 26, 2006 Author Posted July 26, 2006 If i need to rebuild my engine due to worn bearings and maybe a knacked crank is it worth upgrading to a 1.8 (and can it be done cheaply!) No one has 1.8 pistons, rods and a crank around they don't want do they?? Plus i have heard liners are hard to come by at the moment - i hear they need replacing if you convert to a 1.8... Thanks for any advice Tom Tom The most southerly uk blatter 😬Yellow 1.6 Supersport 😬 Photos here
Dickie Normuss Posted July 26, 2006 Posted July 26, 2006 It always makes me smile when threads like this go from gloom and despondancy to 'how can I spend loads of money and make my car faster' 😬 😬 😬 Seek forgiveness, not permission. Rules are for the interpretation of wise men and the obedience of fools.
Kevsta Posted July 26, 2006 Posted July 26, 2006 Best bet is to speak to oilyhands (Dave Andrews) and LISTEN TO HIM! Don't think you know more about something on the K because he has seen it all before. I took my engine to him and he's sorted it everytime and for a lot less than he should have done. Be careful not to skim head too much. Also, check the liner heights are 4thou, if not, linish or skim the block. If you (or anyone else) is interested, I have a spare block (no pistons or liners but Dave will have some) and an 1800 crank in good condition. i have polished the journals too! Bought as my engine lunched the bearings due to no OP but the block and crank were slavageable (thanks to Dave!). Good luck with it!
Colin Mill Posted July 26, 2006 Posted July 26, 2006 Tom - it may be that the bearings are knackered but perfectly servicable big ends sound bad with zero oil pressure - I'd go with batteredoldsupersport's advice first unless you really want to do the upgrade anyway.
Fathead Posted July 26, 2006 Author Posted July 26, 2006 yeah, your probably right - just wondered if someone had things they didn't want don't have any money anyway 😬 Tom The most southerly uk blatter 😬Yellow 1.6 Supersport 😬 Photos here
Colin Mill Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 There must be shedloads of reasonably servicable Ks in scrappers. Apart from swapping the sump and mutilating the block for the starter I'm not sure what else you would have to do to use one as a complete replacement. It would give you loads of time to fettle the existing one into something 'interesting'.
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