Tyres - availability and fitment

[Richard_420R]

Hi All - my ZZS set is nearing its end and it seems like they aren't available currently - can't see anyone with stock in the next month or so... it seems like the only (good) options around are ZZRs or Toyo R888R for my 6"/8" 13" rim config on the 420R.  
The Toyo seems appealing as sentiment appears to say more track focused than ZZS but not as sketchy on the highway as the ZZR.  But sizes are a bit off - can someone confirm that the 185/205-60-R13 would fit the Apollo 6"/8" x 13" rims?  Also diameter will be a bit off so might cause some gearing issues??

Follow-up question - what else should I consider?  The Yoko A052 seem to be available in 14"+ only.  
Also is there any love for the ZZR on a car that will be 60:40 road:track?  I'm sure I'd love it at Cadwell where my ZZS just gets too hot - but sounds like heat-up on road means they'll be lairy even in the dry.

Cheers, Rich. 

[Toughie]

I'm afraid I can't help you regarding alternatives, but Avon are very pro the Club, so if you want to chat to their Avon Motorsport Tyres people they'll be glad to give you a view of the ZZR v ZZS for your combination of track v road.  You can find their guide, specifically written for the Club, here, in the Club Guides section.

Alternatively you can chat to them on 07900 054996.  You'll probably get a bloke called Adam, but they're all technically knowledgeable and helpful.

[TomB]

I need a pair of rears soon, hope Avon can help.   

[Nick Bassett]

The contact I have at Avon is Faye George on 01225 357751 - very helpful when I dealt with her.

[Geoff Brown]

AVON Motorsport Sales Team number to get you a good price is 01225 357855.

Last time I contacted them for two ZZS 13" 185/55 they were £118 each with 'club discount'. Considerably cheaper than other outlets.

[Richard_420R]

Thanks I'll try the suggestions.

Any views about key differences if I tried the R888R or the Nankang AR1 instead??

[Geoff Brown]

No experience of Nankang. R888R has good grip, wear out rapidly & are not, allegedly as good in the wet as ZZS though some would comment that the difference is marginal. Aqua planing at 40mph instead of 50 mph in very wet conditions !?

I am sure others will be along to comment/disagree. 

[aerobod - near CYYC]

Nankang AR-1s overall seem to have a bit better dry grip than R888Rs, but do take a lot of working to get the temperature up to optimum grip levels (being designed for cars 2 to 3x the Caterham weight), so would be better suited for track use, but the R888Rs would be a better road tyre from my experience.

I can't get the AR-1s up to the optimum 70C in anything below 20C ambient, leading to more understeer due to the front tyres cooling on the straights. Once there is heat into the front tyres, they work very well, are quite predictable and last a reasonable distance - about 1500km / 900 miles of hard track use.

[Richard_420R]

Super useful thanks.  However I have the 8" rear wheels and currently I can find any R888R or AR1 tyres in a sensible width and profile for the rear for the 8" Apollo.  The only like-for-like 215-55-R13 for the rear seem to be ZZRs.  Maybe I'm going to have to try those and get another set of ZZS when they become available again ... hmmm. 

[aerobod - near CYYC]

I run 235/45-13 AR-1s on the rear 13x8" wheels and 185/60-13 on the front 13x6" ones.

[ptr_drvr]

I bought my car with ZZRs all round (6" & 8") but will be changing to AR1s I suspect when the time comes. I've used them on my Fiesta track car and really like them.

I'll be changing to a subtly different tyre size, as you point out, you can't get anything else in the same size as the ZZRs. 

My only query is to go 235/45/13 or 205/60/13. In theory, both will fit an 8" wheel...

@Aerobod, could you post a pic of your 235/45 please? Would like to see how it sits on the wheel rim.

[aerobod - near CYYC]

They are very close to an optimum fit on the 8" wheels, spec range is from 7.5" to 9" width:

[L7 FST]

Also worth noting that the AR-1 235 rears are 10mm shorter (ie less tall overall) than the 185 fronts, whereas the 205 rears are (more conventionally) taller than the 185 fronts by 25mm.  Nothing that can't be sorted out with adjustable platforms, of course..

I agree with James's comments about warm-up problems on track - I tend to run much higher pressures with AR-1s (maybe 25 psi) than with other track tyres

 

Stephen  

[z7]

Rich, I've only ever run Yokohama A021 or A048, so I defer to the above comments.  However, you mention "60:40 road:track".  Nankang say their NS-2R is a 50:50 road:track, and the AR-1 10:90 road:track.  I'm going to try the NS-2R. HTH.

[ptr_drvr]

Thanks James, that's really helpful. I had been looking at the sizes but it's not easy to imagine, so pics are super helpful.

 

Edit: replying to #12, not #14 

[Richard_420R]

FYI I spoke to Avon and they said they have no ZZS tyres and it will be early September before they have stock again as production was shut down for two weeks over summer.  

[Richard_420R]

I ended up getting a new wheel set with some part worn ZZS tyres and put on ZZRs to replace my worn ZZSs.  Having just completed the first track day with the ZZRs, I've come away impressed how close the ZZS is to the R - grip levels are very close - the R doesn't go off as quickly when hot but it shows that the ZZS is a excellent all round tyre.  I must admit I was expecting a bigger delta given the nearly slick tread on the R but I guess the ZZS has a pretty aggressive tread pattern itself. 
 

Edit: not sure if it was me but the R also feels a little more compliant on the road and softer on turn-in than the S.  Not sure if it is a softer compound or not but it feels quite forgiving and the tyre wall feels softer to me,