R300 K Series - Foam baffle or not?

[finmac]

Recently bought a lovely 1 owner R300 K, (forgotten what a great wee driving machine these are having owned one way back when they first came out!). 

Anyway, I'd appreciate a wee refresher as to current thinking on lubrication for it please. The car has a factory Apollo and also sump foam. I won't be tracking it and wanted to know whats the frequency to change the foam or potentially just remove it altogether?  Also, I have about 10 litres of 5w50 Comma Motorsport oil in the garage, is this the right stuff? 

[paul richards]

Ditch the foam. Modify the sump gasket by putting a couple of holes near the pickup. Oil is correct. 

[John Vine]

From my time with a 1.8K SS-R (essentially an R300)...

I think the consensus is to ditch the foam permanently.  That's certainly what I did.

Comma Motorsport 5W/50 is exactly the right oil to use.

JV

[John Vine]

And this is where to add the extra holes in the gasket:

JV

 

[East Kent AR]

I have had an R300K for 12 years and have it serviced regularly at Sevens and Classics. They have never suggested removing the foam and each time it's been changed, it was fine and not degrading. However, regular oil changes and foam changes need to be done.  The 5W/50 oil is correct.

Piers

[SM25T]

Hi Finlay. Ditch the foam and use 5W-50

[finmac]

Thanks all!

[john milner]

I'm not sure what the foam is supposed to do. My guess is it helps filter out bubbles descending towards the sump.

I did remove the foam eventually but never had any problems with the three or four I had replaced.

 

The simplest answer to whether it stays or goes is:

If the engine goes bad because of having the foam it is your fault for not removing it.

If the engine goes bad because of not having the foam it is your fault for removing it.

[21jigsaw]

 The K series installation  was designed with a shallow sump to fit under bonnet. The consequence being a low shallow volume of oil which was susceptible to aeration - tiny bubbles suspended in the oil. This was amplified buy the high lateral g forces generated by the cars. The aerated oil would circulate to the hydraulic tappets acting as a spring the valves bounce resulting in  loss of control, the valves would touch the pistons bending them, eventually with a bending fatigue the valve heads would drop off resulting in total engine failure. The tiny bubbles suspended in the oil  need to be burst or be purged .  Air is  removed / bubble burst if the oil hits a solid surface / object ie baffle, foam, block or sump.

The sign off test devised by Caterham for a 1400 Supersport was 1st gear (5 speed box) max revs three figure of eights as fast as possible brake to a stop idle the engine and listen to see if the tappets rattled / aerated. The  foam arrangement gave the required results.

Further development mainly for track competition resulted in the Apollo tank, solid tappets, purple pump dry sump leading to much higher performance  gold pump dry sump package.

To run an  Apollo with the increase in oil  volume and the centrifugal purging of air from the system would probably negate the use of the foam.

I have  run the same foam for some 27k miles 13 years without issue. There have been  failures of the foam leading to engine failure possibly due to :-

 1) bad batch of foam material

 2) fuel contamination

3)Oil  compatibility / contamination

4) engine temperature etc.

 There is no clear reason as to the cause of failure of the foam.

Hope this helps

Dave

[JP]

Is that the general consensus: that if you run an Apollo, then a foam baffle is not necessary?

[finmac]

Very helpful thanks 

[Golf Juliet Tango]

JP: as 21 Jigsaw lead the Rover team participating in the installation of the K into Caterhams, he is certainly a voice of authority.

But note he is explaining why the foam is there and recounting his own experience. 

[JP]

#12 - many thanks

[Geoff Brown]

#9 - Thirteen years is a long time to run a K Series with the same foam baffle.

When owning a K Series I used to change the foam religiously at a four year point irrespective of mileage. During ownership I changed the foam three times & I can assure you that each baffle was very 'crispy' & discoloured.

Oil saturation & extreme changes in temperature from cold to running hot then any foam would have the appearance I witnessed.

IMO you are pushing the limits of serviceability of the foam baffle & it could not be too long before some of the little crispy bits end up circulating the engine.

 

[7SW]

I did change on 2 years basis the foam for several years, nevers seen any issue with it, clear and flexible.

However I began a little bit concerned with the pan fixing threads, afraid of threads degradation.

I so decided to remove the foam and replace it with a Baffle Hellier (with a modified gasket).

Since, I did several long trips like Grandes Alpes, Morvan, ... I never had any issue with: no trouble with the oil pressure, nothing.

[rj]

Just fit Time-serts in all the threads. Once done never any problems

 

[Terry Field]

My 1999 K has 17k on the clock. Last year the oil pick up was partially blocked by disintegrating foam leading to a dramatic loss in pressure. Fortunately I got away with it and when Classics and Sevens took it in, they simply removed the foam permanently.

The car is used for road use only, no track work.

[finmac]

Bit of a daft follow up question please. Why does the sump gasket need modified by adding two extra holes? 

[Roadsport06]

Oil drains back to the bottom of the sump rather than sitting on the top of the gasket.

[Wrightpayne]

#18

First time I took the sump off I got oil everywhere and yes I did drain it first :-)

The gasket has a wide ledge to block off the spinning parts from the oil (windage) and because of the angle of the engine, oil sits on the ledge.

The two holes simply allow the oil back into the sump. It doesnt 'gain' capacity of oil in the sump as, without the holes, the engine would have been filled to capacity anyway. That said I think it is a good idea to do it.

[7SW]

Hello, here are two pics:

 

[finmac]

Brilliant guys - many thanks!