flout (vt): to intentionally disobey a rule or law
Well, that's pretty clear.
It's probably true to say that, every time I venture out on to UK roads (in 7 or tintop), I break the law at some point by exceeding the stipulated speed limit. Do I do it knowingly? Yes, definitely. Do I do it intentionally? Hmmm... interesting distinction.
#13 - Thank you for the emissions standards document. I've looked up my 1999 K-series and I have the date code "W".
My original Caterham silencer with incorporated cat must be completely devoid of packing now and it looks as if I can replace it with whatever I want as I'm subject to a visible smoke test only! When the car was on the road, I think that every MOT I had I have had to have a proper emissions test - but that seems to have been incorrect!
I've looked up my 1999 K-series and I have the date code "W"
This looks like getting complicated...
"W" is the 1998 chassis year. When was your car first registered? Presumably 1999?
The MOT Manual says:
For emissions purposes only you should treat the following as first used before 1 August 1975:
kit cars and amateur-built vehicles first used before 1 August 1998
If your car was first used on or after 1 Aug 1998, the following applies:
Kit cars
Kit cars and amateur-built vehicles first used on or after 1 August 1998 must have either Single Vehicle Approval (SVA) or Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA).
You must test kit cars or amateur built vehicles to the limits in the vehicle’s registration document (V5c). If the V5c does not show any limits, you must test it to the limits of the engine fitted at the time of the SVA or IVA test.
For the "W" chassis year (1998) or earlier, I think a further complication will lie in the 6th letter of your VIN. If it's not C or K, I suspect the "amateur-built" tag won't apply. What is your 6th character?
Note that the DVSA guide works on chassis year, whereas the MOT Manual works on registration letter. So there's an ambiguity in the rules for registrations between 1 August and 31 December 1998. If your first reg date falls between those dates, I reckon you could successfully argue for a visual smoke-test only.
The 6th digit is "K" - it was kit built, but not by me.
The 10th is "W"
It is an R6 engine.
There are no emissions data on the V5.
It is a 1998 chassis, first registered in April 1999.
Argh - I've just noticed on the front of the V5, it says this:
"SVA / IVA Cert issued [date] Emission Limit - as DOT publication" If the DOT publication is the emission data in the post aboev does the "limit" referred to mean visible smoke or those in the table? It seems that the table only applies if the 6th digit isn't C or K and the 10th digit is after W? All very confusing. Perhaps I'll pick my battle once I see the emissions data after getting it back on the road...
For "K" and "W", DVSA clearly say "amateur-built", therefore visible smoke test only. But the MOT Manual says test to "...the limits of the engine fitted at the time of the SVA or IVA test." Where those limits are documented I've no idea, but I'd assume the DVSA doc above.
Those two statements are clearly contradictory. Perhaps the only way to resolve things would be to contact DVSA and get them to confirm in writing what test applies?
Re the DOT publication, I don't know what "limit" refers to. I assume DOT = Dept of Transport, but their publications would pre-date the VOSA/DVSA ones by some years. In any case, no emissions data would have been recorded on the Minister's Approval Certificate (MAC) issued by the SVA tester, nor on the V5C.
This is what the V5C says for my old 1999 1.8K (sold to my daughter and S-in-L):
The year code is "X" (1999). The emissions limits are clearly stated here (unlike for your car) and match the DVSA doc. I think they would be unachievable without a cat. There are no emissions values in the body of the V5C, nor on the SVA MAC, so these limits must have been taken from current DVSA docs. (Note that this V5C is not my original!)
just about to go through this as my MOT place have all new kit which is now all linked to DVSA and takes the option away from the tester, in theory the system should know the limits for your given vehicle....... I'm not holding my breath on that one though.
mine is a factory built 1999 car but with a different engine which doesn't appear on the apendix list for the correct year therefore i should test to the limits of the engine fitted at time of IVA/SVA , these limits are higher then the BET for a CAT.
I already have all the docs and spoken at length to the tester, he has no idea what options the system will permit so its a little voyage of discovery, will report back once I've been..
#27 - Mine was SVA'd 5 days before yours...anyway, I've never had problem passing thus far and so perhaps I'll stick with the Caterham cat/silencer combined for now, even if it is a bit noisy...
When the rebuild is done and it finally hits the road I'll ask my local MOT tester.
#29 Just to add that my original V5C, like yours, may not have included the actual emission limits, so it could have said the same as yours under "Notes". I no longer have a copy, but if it would help, I could ask my daughter and S-in-L.
Yes, but were you 'flouting' the law??
flout (vt): to intentionally disobey a rule or law
Well, that's pretty clear.
It's probably true to say that, every time I venture out on to UK roads (in 7 or tintop), I break the law at some point by exceeding the stipulated speed limit. Do I do it knowingly? Yes, definitely. Do I do it intentionally? Hmmm... interesting distinction.
JV
#13 - Thank you for the emissions standards document. I've looked up my 1999 K-series and I have the date code "W".
My original Caterham silencer with incorporated cat must be completely devoid of packing now and it looks as if I can replace it with whatever I want as I'm subject to a visible smoke test only! When the car was on the road, I think that every MOT I had I have had to have a proper emissions test - but that seems to have been incorrect!
#24: You're welcome. Glad it was useful.
I've looked up my 1999 K-series and I have the date code "W"
This looks like getting complicated...
"W" is the 1998 chassis year. When was your car first registered? Presumably 1999?
The MOT Manual says:
For emissions purposes only you should treat the following as first used before 1 August 1975:
If your car was first used on or after 1 Aug 1998, the following applies:
Kit cars
Kit cars and amateur-built vehicles first used on or after 1 August 1998 must have either Single Vehicle Approval (SVA) or Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA).
You must test kit cars or amateur built vehicles to the limits in the vehicle’s registration document (V5c). If the V5c does not show any limits, you must test it to the limits of the engine fitted at the time of the SVA or IVA test.
For the "W" chassis year (1998) or earlier, I think a further complication will lie in the 6th letter of your VIN. If it's not C or K, I suspect the "amateur-built" tag won't apply. What is your 6th character?
Note that the DVSA guide works on chassis year, whereas the MOT Manual works on registration letter. So there's an ambiguity in the rules for registrations between 1 August and 31 December 1998. If your first reg date falls between those dates, I reckon you could successfully argue for a visual smoke-test only.
JV
#25 - So...
The 6th digit is "K" - it was kit built, but not by me.
The 10th is "W"
It is an R6 engine.
There are no emissions data on the V5.
It is a 1998 chassis, first registered in April 1999.
Argh - I've just noticed on the front of the V5, it says this:
"SVA / IVA Cert issued [date] Emission Limit - as DOT publication" If the DOT publication is the emission data in the post aboev does the "limit" referred to mean visible smoke or those in the table? It seems that the table only applies if the 6th digit isn't C or K and the 10th digit is after W? All very confusing. Perhaps I'll pick my battle once I see the emissions data after getting it back on the road...
#26: Thanks for all that info.
For "K" and "W", DVSA clearly say "amateur-built", therefore visible smoke test only. But the MOT Manual says test to "...the limits of the engine fitted at the time of the SVA or IVA test." Where those limits are documented I've no idea, but I'd assume the DVSA doc above.
Those two statements are clearly contradictory. Perhaps the only way to resolve things would be to contact DVSA and get them to confirm in writing what test applies?
Re the DOT publication, I don't know what "limit" refers to. I assume DOT = Dept of Transport, but their publications would pre-date the VOSA/DVSA ones by some years. In any case, no emissions data would have been recorded on the Minister's Approval Certificate (MAC) issued by the SVA tester, nor on the V5C.
This is what the V5C says for my old 1999 1.8K (sold to my daughter and S-in-L):
The year code is "X" (1999). The emissions limits are clearly stated here (unlike for your car) and match the DVSA doc. I think they would be unachievable without a cat. There are no emissions values in the body of the V5C, nor on the SVA MAC, so these limits must have been taken from current DVSA docs. (Note that this V5C is not my original!)
JV
just about to go through this as my MOT place have all new kit which is now all linked to DVSA and takes the option away from the tester, in theory the system should know the limits for your given vehicle....... I'm not holding my breath on that one though.
mine is a factory built 1999 car but with a different engine which doesn't appear on the apendix list for the correct year therefore i should test to the limits of the engine fitted at time of IVA/SVA , these limits are higher then the BET for a CAT.
I already have all the docs and spoken at length to the tester, he has no idea what options the system will permit so its a little voyage of discovery, will report back once I've been..
#27 - Mine was SVA'd 5 days before yours...anyway, I've never had problem passing thus far and so perhaps I'll stick with the Caterham cat/silencer combined for now, even if it is a bit noisy...
When the rebuild is done and it finally hits the road I'll ask my local MOT tester.
#29 Just to add that my original V5C, like yours, may not have included the actual emission limits, so it could have said the same as yours under "Notes". I no longer have a copy, but if it would help, I could ask my daughter and S-in-L.
JV
Thanks JV. I have a sensible MoT tester. When the car is reassembled and presented for an MoT I'll ask his advice and update here...