craigyb Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I've had my car for 5 years now (1.6K supersport), and will selling the car next week. New R400, with RTB upgrade, on order to arrive in April.I also posted approx 3 years ago that I would be sticking with the foam baffle, and replacing it as appropriate.So for information:5 Years, approx 15k miles, 10 trackdaysReplaced it twice. No problems of any kind.I had incredibly negative comments last time I posted on this, and have not posted since on blatchat, howvever, I felt now is the time to close the loop. I hope the negativity isn't repeated - I'm simply giving information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Stripped my engine down for a rebuild recently. Discovered that it had the foam installed when I thought it did not, so it had been there for some time. To be honest it was absolutely fine, no sign of it being brittle and no sign of debris coming off it. I have opted to remove it after all the horror stories I've heard but they do seem to be quite variable - like yours, mine never gave any trouble. Whether we have just been lucky or not I guess we will never really know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ford Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Almost all K-series racers use it, never heard of any of them having a problem. Don't know if that's down to changing them and/or the oil more regularly or what. Much as I wouldn't dare to disagree with OilyHands on the topic, all the other engine builders I've spoken to recommend keeping the foam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob L Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Just changed mine. The old one looked fine so was happy to replace with new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilyhands Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I think my sample size is probably a lot larger than most. I have seen around 30 instances where the foam has broken up and partly clogged (and in one case completely clogged) the oil pickup. One owner had his engine serviced less than 50 miles before and they claimed to have changed the foam, it was like crispy sea weed. You measure the overall efficacy of a system by the number of times it fails rather than by individual instances of success, I can't afford to take the risk that a carefully built engine will fail due to a broken up foam insert whose purpose is at best unclear,Oily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I'm one of Oily's 30. My foam went from new to a puddle of goo (blocking/impeding the pickup with fragments in the meantime) in around 70 miles (that was the point at which I saw the oil pressure waver).Hateful thing. Cost me a small fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revilla Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Odd though isn't it that some last for years and some fail in as little as 70 miles ...Does anyone have any information as to why there may be such a wide variation? Have there been different materials used for the foam over the years? Could it be anything to do with oil types? Is it related to track use (I'm thinking oil temperature)? Is there any link to HGF (I'm thinking coolant damage)? Is there anything else in common between the engines where it fails which sets them apart from those that don't?I'm not arguing with anyone, just intrigued as to why this happens so unpredicatably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mort Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 Never had a problem with mine, although it does get changed every year. When I bought my Seven it still had the original baffle which was 5 years old, and it was perfectly fine.Maybe it has something to do with the oil used. I tend to use the Caterham stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesElliott Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 I think that Myles (from memory) had either HGF or coolant in the oil for some other reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21jigsaw Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 C21 supersport, 14yrs and 20k miles. Oil changed every 5k. The foam was a bit crispy / age hardened but still fully functional when changed. Seems like there is another factor in all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonyH Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Our SV is on its second engine, the first having suffered oil starvation due to foam disintegration with the previous owner - being "not me" I have no idea how old that foam was of course, so possibly due to insufficient maintenance.At last year's service the foam was at the "crispy seaweed" stage with some parts starting to become detached, so after some discussion I opted to dispose of it.I've heard reasons for keeping it, relating to oil surge, but these seem mostly based in track use which we just don't do, so on balance removing it seemed safer.It does seem, as 21jigsaw says, that there's possibly more in play than just the foam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Charles - yes, I was using cheap zero-synthetic-content oil for running in and probably ingesting some coolant through a dodgy inlet gasket.Although this is probably on the fringes of the bell-curve of most users situations, it should be noted that it took only 70 miles (and, therefore, just 90-120 minutes?) of use to get there. I wasn't running aviation fuel, nitrous or anything else out of the norm - I was just running in an engine with an undetected teething problem that anyone could pick up out on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21jigsaw Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 The initial development of the k series into Caterham required a north / south installation as opposed to the east west. The other major issue was the height of the engine the bonnet line had to remain undisturbed . The installation was 12deg as per Rover installation. This in turn effected the design of the sump. The standard sump not being an option.During the development phase engine failures occurred, examination revealed valve failure due to oil airation. The baffle was modified and foam added to reduce the suspension of air in the oil. ( the air is purged from the oil when the airated oil contacts an object). This resolved the issue.It appears the cause of failure of the foam can be down to :- A) Foam - original quality , specification, age, contamination, batches, shelf life, stock rotation, supplier.B) Degradation due to oil, coolant, fuel.C) Working inviroment.My moneys on A.The foam fitted to my car was from 1996 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 LE0 is a 2003 1.8k SV with a totally unmodified engine now on 122,000 miles. I have changed the oil (Syner-Z) and filter every 6,000 miles and the foam every 12,000. For roughly half the mileage the engine has been run with the foam and apart from the colour there has been little difference between the old and the new. For the other 60k it has been run without after one lot of foam started to break up and the only change I have noticed is that the oil seems to warm up more quickly, based on readings of the idling oil pressure.So I'm squarely on the fence with a foot in both camps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ford Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Just had the diagnosis from my big end failure at Snetterton. And, would you believe it, the foam had broken up and blocked the oil ways.That foam was replaced at the start of the season. Since them it's done the pre-season trackday, testing, one qualifying and two races at Silverstone, plus testing at Snett.Now I had a head gasket failure at Silverstone (replaced in an incredible 15 minutes by Rockey Racing to get me out into qualifying) so it's possible that coolant got into the oil. Given that Myles also had an issue with coolant, that looks like we might have a possible culprit.Clearly my post above was asking for trouble. Funnily enough I was regretting saying "racing K-series engines never seem to blow head gaskets" at Silverstone as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucus72 Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Amazing that it happens so fast. Does anyone have a spare bit of foam and some oil and coolant to play with on the bench? For ref I'm one of those that changed my foam every big oil change (so alternate years) and never saw any degradation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21jigsaw Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Hi, I have taken 2 pieces of foam, placed 1 in OAT and 1 ethelyne glycol coolant brought to the boil and simmered for 20 minutes now on the shelf in the garage soaking. Roger what coolant were you using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 24, 2016 Member Share Posted May 24, 2016 What's the "OAT" liquid, please?Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green george Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 OAT is an acronym for Organic Acid (Additive) Technology which describes the type of materials responsible for the corrosion protection offered by a coolant of this type. OATs are Long Life Coolants (LLC), based on minimally depleting Carboxylate Technology. This technology provides superior protection to all components of the cooling system including those exotic materials like aluminum and magnesium found in the modern day engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 24, 2016 Member Share Posted May 24, 2016 Maybe. :-)The last time I read this up there were a lot of different chemicals being called "OAT". And IIRC most vehicle coolants labelled "OAT" contain ethylene glycol.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ford Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 My coolant was pink, and I'm pretty sure that means OAT. I'll check tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21jigsaw Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 The foam failures have not been consistent, hence there must be a trend that will lead to the cause of failure providing enough accurate information is available. lets look at the variables prior to failureage of foam -when purchased, when fitted,Failure of foam -age year , mileage. time period in engine. oil grade type and brand used. coolant type and brand used. did coolant require top up during this period that the foam was fitted. cooling related failures / issues during this period . any major engine issues work carried out prior to foam failure. Type of running race / track days , general road.Have I missed anything out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john milner Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Having a similar list for foam that has not failed may help identify any common factors. e.g. most failures happened when X was done but hardly any failures when X was not done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucus72 Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 21jigsaw, applaud your efforts at more detailed research, but keen to know did anything exciting happen on the shelf in your garage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21jigsaw Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 Marcus, No swelling / shrinking will leave to soak for a few more days.John, Good point updated list.Suggested survey. Only cars with foam fitted or suffered foam failure engine size approx bhp have you suffered overheating issues / airlock etc. Y/N appollo / laminova fitted Y/N wet sump only Y/N Type of running :- gerenal road trackday racing The following questions are for Foam failure only approx age of foam in months year of foam failure approx milage before failure oil grade type and brand used. coolant type and brand used. did coolant require top up during this period that the foam was fitted. cooling related failures / issues during this period . Y/N any major engine issues / work carried out prior to foam failure. Y/NI have I missed anything?Be grateful on any suggestions / help on how to gather this information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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