Enhanced stop light bulb?

[Chris C]

I have clear lenses on the rear of my 420R but the brake lights appear quite dim.

Can anyone suggest what bulb I should be using to make it appear a lot brighter?

Thanks,

Chris

[Jonathan Kay]

Do you have LEDs or an incandescent bulb? And if the latter what's the nominal wattage printed on the metal bit?

Jonathan

[SM25T]

Those clear lenses may look fashionable, but they are pretty useless IMO 

[Benton]

First thing I did with my current car was bin all the clear lens and replaced with "normal" red/orange ones together with LED bulbs. They show your "intentions" far clearer IMO

[7 wonders of the world]

The clear lens red bulb options are utter sh!te, we follow several on the chippy run and you cannot see them in anything other that under a tree canopy,

Neither are they E marked !

CC's versions and SVC's are

https://www.s-v-c.co.uk/products/led322-flat-led-cluster-pair

or if you want the original look use the round mini style LED versions.

[David aka Blue7]

Chris, I think the clear lenses look great, far superior to those old fashioned reds   If you really want the best look no further than the JAL upgrade, they are amazing!  Take a look at the 4th photo

https://justaddlightness.co.uk/product/caterham-7-rear-light-cluster-led-upgrade-kit/

[BigCol]

I have various, excellent, products from Classic Car LEDs Ltd.

[GulfSeven]

I'm leaving my factory clear lenses and bulbs in place, but fitting a hich level rain light to augment them.

https://justaddlightness.co.uk/product/caterham-7-high-level-led-third-brake-light/

[DanRo]

That was my approach also. I fitted 2 brake lights from JAL and they have been faultless. Very helpful advice from Doug about purchasing a sub-loom too.

[Chris C]

Thanks for all your suggestions!

Chris

[krisfl]

Just get a set of JAL LED boards and keep your clear lenses if you like the look. MASSIVE difference and easy fit.

https://justaddlightness.co.uk/product/caterham-7-rear-light-cluster-led-upgrade-kit/

And then add a high level light as GulfSeven suggests.... all about being seen...

[krisfl]

Just seen I'm repeating Blue7 - there must be an echo 

[David aka Blue7]

AKA 'Echo friendly advice'

[7 wonders of the world]

Although the performance may be excellent the JAL lights are NOT 'E' marked - a nice loop hole for someone to wriggle through should they @rse end you.....

 

 

[David aka Blue7]

Remoaner?

"Our LED panels are manufactured to both ISO9001 and IPC610 Class 3 standard. IPC610 Class 3 is the highest standard possible for Printed Circuit Boards and is often associated with military and aerospace panels. Class 3 PCB’s are defined as; products where continued high performance or performance-on-demand is critical, equipment downtime cannot be tolerated, end-use environment may be uncommonly harsh, and the equipment must function when required."

[7 wonders of the world]

That is not E marked....

If they were sold as not for highway use then potential customers could make their own decision about the legality of using the on a public high, however they are not so buyers will mistakenly think these are a correctly approved legal light set which sadly they are not.

Having an E marked lens does not automatically make the entire set approved, I realise that obtaining this approval is extremely costly, but the statement in #15 has nothing to do with the legality of the lights, only the high quality of the components used.

[David aka Blue7]

Unfortunately, the legislation is old and outdated. Written in 1986, there are still many things that need to be changed.  For example, the legislation doesn’t take new technologies into account. It was written at a time when the idea of replacing one technology for another within the same headlight unit just wasn’t a thing.

According to the legislation – in order to get enough light output for a stop light, you would need a minimum of 15 watts. This would make sense for a filament bulb however an LED would produce an immense amount of light at 15 watts. Every time you press the brakes, you would be blinding the person behind you.

Perhaps a better way to set the standards is to use metrics that transcend technology. For example, instead of a minimum or maximum wattage, lumens would be a better metric.

Brexit 2021 MOT update states: Section 4.1.4 :

“Existing halogen headlamp units should not be converted to be used with high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp.”

This is a brand new update that seems to only focus on headlights.  There are no mentions to fail other LED bulbs such as brake lights, tail lights or reversing lights.

It is an argument that could continue endlessly and I don't have the time or inclination but all I would say is:

1. You are less likely to be 'rear ended' with JAL lights fitted in place of the old dim standard lights.

2. If you were unfortunate enough to be rear ended, the thought of an Inspector Clouseau type insurance agent carrying out a detailed forensic inspection of your rear end looking for E marks or lack of them is IMHO quite ludicrous but I accept that you are entitled to your opinion also.  Insurance agents can't be bothered leaving the comfort of their orifices nowadays and just negotiate values over the phone.  If you could find a Barrister and the matter went to Court in 10 years time, it could be argued that the JAL lights are in fact superior to some lights with an E mark and it would appear that all countries seem to have a different interpretation of 'E'.

I was parked behind Doug (JAL), waiting to begin our journey to the Lancaster taxi run during the 60th celebrations.  When I saw his rear lights compared the the 7 parked next to him I was in no doubt that I wanted the upgrade for common sense safety.  I am sure Doug has covered this E issue in previous posts.

The lights are not E marked so be careful out there

[Benton]

Insurance agents can't be bothered leaving the comfort of their orifices nowadays and just negotiate values over the phone.

 

I beg to differ based on very recent experience.

A lot will depend of whether the insurers motor engineer (assessor) believes any repair estimate is reasonable given the information they have to hand at the time.

 

 

 

[7 wonders of the world]

I know of 2 cases where the offending driver claimed they could not see the brake lights, this was investigated and the lights were found to be non E marked units in both cases the offending driver got off...... any excuse for an insurance company to dodge paying out and they will take it - wether you consider tihs ludicrous or not !

I agree with your point about JAL being much brighter, as the OE ones are crap and the clear lens' simply shocking I am only making fellow club members aware that they could find themselves with a big repair bill. 

[GulfSeven]

The clear lenses are E-marked, but one thing I've never understood is why they're not fitted to the car until after IVA. New cars with clear lenses and LED bulbs (like mine) come with the standard lenses and lights in the boot! Does that imply that somehow the factory clear lenses with LED bulbs don't meet regulations?

FYI, the JAL high level brake light is E-marked (so on the back of my car I now have 3 E-marked lights, one of which is at least bright enough to see in daylight).

[David aka Blue7]

#20 Tim, that also puzzled me and the explanation I received was that the standard lenses were included in the price and the clear lenses were an optional extra so if I selected them, CC would fit them and also supply the standard lenses because I had paid for them.  It always amused me as did two dipsticks and a smart green presentation box, which I opened with excitement but ... like the story of The Old Empty Barn" ... there was nothing in it!

As a  matter of interest, are the new CC rear led lights E marked?  Update, the CC website confirms they are E-marked having met European commission regulations and safety standards.

[7 wonders of the world]

Blue7-  Yes the new CC LED lights are E marked,

Tim, 

The lens may be but the comply, as may the red bulb but they will not have been approved as a unit - not hard to see why when you follow someone with them. 

Red bulbs fade rapidly,even when new the colour these offer varies as does the output ...

These would not pass IVA which is why CC used the old complete units which were approved, if your running clear lens with red bulbs Tim I would seriously change them, they are really shocking in terms of performance,  switching to LED bulbs alters the angle at which the light hits the lens and therefore output varies depending on the viewing angle.

[David aka Blue7]

I agree about the red led bulbs, I tried a few different types and they were all useless in clear lenses.  It is why I thought Doug's solution of an outer facing card was (excuse the pun) brilliant. 

[Wrightpayne]

I keep looking at options as I've had reports my orange/red lenses and traditional bulbs are dire.

The LED replacement bulbs seem to have a lot of LEDs pointing towards the back panel so I think these would be better suited to the front indicators. So at this point I'm erring towards the panel type LED units For the rear.

I do get the E mark argument and the potential issues arising, however, I feel that the risk is worthwhile especially as it is trying to remedy a potential safety hazard. Unlike non E compliant headlights, rear lights are unlikely to cause an accident IMHO. Many OEM LED headlights are a safety hazard already as they are too bright.

The other point to make is how many of our cars are exactly as per the original build specification? Some of us drive heavily modified cars and unless every single modification is declared, we run the risk of our insurers having a get out clause. 

Finally, I remember a post from several years ago where someone had found some plastic highly mirrored concave reflectors that could be fitted behind the bulbs to improve the rear lights (though these probably affect the E marking status!)

[JAL]

Just for the record JAL lights have never failed an IVA or MOT. One IVA inspector was quoted as saying that JAL lights should be fitted as standard.

Blue7 is correct in the fact that the legislation has simply not kept up with technology. There are numerous instances of modern car manufacturers 'bending' the rules in their favour but ultimately making their cars better. Wrightpayne is also correct in pointing out that many of us already drive heavily modified cars.

The whole point here is safety, you are much less likely to be involved in an accident if other drivers can see you. JAL has upgraded thousands of Caterhams around the world without issue. In fact, our lights are still so popular that we have sold out again!

As for worrying about your insurance company not paying out, that's simple. Tell them! I have told every insurance company for all my Caterhams that I have upgraded to aftermarket LED rear light panels. They are more than happy to add the modification to my policy free of charge. In fact they are happy to add anything that makes your car safer and less likely to be involved in an accident in the first place.

Here is a video from James Morris showing how bright JAL lights are with clear lenses and high level brake lights. 

Be safe everyone

Doug