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Can we talk about batteries ....


SLR No.77

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  • Leadership Team

My previous Caterham (140bhp Supersport) was a couple of years old when I bought it, then 9 years later when it went to its new owner it was only on it's second Banner battery, easily 6 years plus per battery and no reason to criticise the Banner.

When I bought my current car (200bhp SLR) in 2007 it had already been fitted with an Odyssey PC545 and after not too long I replaced it with the same. I gradually decided it wasn't big enough, slow cranking, regular failures etc., and subsequently I fitted a bigger Odyssey PC680 which was initially more reliable.

This however didn't last too long before needing replacing, so I fitted a second PC680, then a third early last year.

And this is where my blood is starting to boil .... 18 months on and I'm having issues again, first failure being the morning of The Big Picnic a week ago, then again this morning. This latest Odyssey, until last night had never seen a trickle charger, no parasitic loads present, yet it now won't crank fast enough to achieve starting.  After the failure last weekend I bought a Ctek charger that has an AGM mode but I'm beginning to think I've wasted more money. Jump starting the Caterham from our 1400cc Audi Q3 works fine, which just happens to be fitted with an o/e AGM battery but physically around 4 times the size of the Odyssey. Looking back it seems I get around 18 months of good starting, then another 18 months of struggles, then I replace with another Odyssey, hardly a good advert for going down the Odyssey route.

So would it be a retrograde step to swap back to a Banner? What has been other owners experiences of long tern use of the Banner with higher powered engines? 

Stu.

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Stuart

I have had 3 Banner batteries plus the original over 22 years. This relates to each lasting an average of 7 years as the latest one is only 6 months old.  As you know I also had a starting problem at the Big Picnic which was disappointing bearing in mind the battery is only 6 months old. 

Car now has 200+ bhp. When I got home it started with my power pack no problem. I therefore suspected the battery or alternator. Checked both with a multimeter and they were fine. I dismantled the battery contacts and despite the fact they looked clean there was a tiny bit of white powder when I disconnected the earth lead. Cleaned the tarnished lead and all was fine. I therefore took the opportunity to clean all the contacts and reassembled using Contralube. Just completed around 600 miles touring Scotland and no problems. 
My advice - go with a Banner. They seem to be at least half the price of these fancy batteries. 

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Banners get a lot of bad press.

I had my first 7 for 8 years,  it was 11 years old when I sold it,still on it original battery. 

Current 7 is 7 years old and original battery,  yep it's a banner.

Look after it, it will last.

Car is always isolated on red key and put on a ctek 0.8a conditioner for weeks at a time, keep an eye on battery fluid levels regularly 

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My Superlight R runs a standard Banner battery - no problems as such. 

It's coming up to 5 years old and have noticed that leaving it on trickle charge, the final green light CTEK charger doesn't light up no matter how long it's attached, so I suspect it'll need a new battery for next year. I'll be SORN-ing it from November so will start 2023 with a new battery.

Only maintenance I do on the battery is check the levels once a year and top up if necessary - usually only requiring very small amounts.

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Hi Stu, I've been running a PC680 on my 2.3l 250bhp Duractec for 10+ years. I have replaced it once but as it turns out the failure was caused by a faulty alternator which killed the battery.

Is it worth checking the rest of the electrical system and alternator to make sure something else isn't causing an issue?

I generally don't keep my car on a trickle charger but do have one for use over winter.

 

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That's a really good point Dave!  After I got the car started yesterday it didn't falter all day, which is either helpful or not depending upon how I view it. I think I'll start by giving the battery connections a good clean as Paul suggests and add a little dielectric grease, it certainly can't do any harm.

When i bought the car 15 years ago it was about as reliable as a broken clock, since then I've focussed heavily on its  reliability but the battery is the one aspect remaining that periodically gets the better of me, very frustrating.

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I've got a Redtop of some sort - its been bullet proof.  I really like the idea of having a fully sealed battery rather than all that nasty acid sloshing around just above passengers feet.  My banner leaked somehow and marked the ali floor, it would have made a mess of a pair of legs! There's that all important weight saving too *thumb_up*         

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I've had very good service from the Banners on my 2008 R400D.  The one supplied with the kit lasted over six years.  Its replacement lasted over seven, although it was definitely getting sluggish by then.  I'm now on my third, fitted in March this year.  They've all been hooked up to an Accumate when not in use, and I check electrolyte levels regularly.  I see no reason to use an alternative brand.

JV

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Another one here happy with the Banner. Maybe not high powered by your standard at 170bhp, standard-ish compression ratios. I had a Banner fail shortly after I got the car, I have no idea how long it had been on before I got it and it was before I understood about conditioning chargers over winter, so was probably my fault! The replacement is still going strong. I've had the car 10 years.

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I note on this thread a lot of people using trickle chargers, CTEK etc. I used to use these but last winter tried the other option of switching the power off via the main cut-off (red) key. Whenever the car is in the garage, the power is switched off and no issues whatsoever. Started first time after last winter's lay-up.

I mention it as switching the power off doesn't run the risk of lowering the electrolyte level.

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I went through 3 Banners and an Ultramax in 10 years, generally 2 hours a day on a CTEK conditioner, battery disconnected during winter lay up. Ended up fitting an isolator switch a few years ago as I too think it's much better than a conditioner. 

Last spring I fitted a Skyrich HJT12B-FP LiFePo battery (a lucky £44 Amazon deal).  It sat unused all winter in an unheated garage and the battery lost none of it's charge, started straight away. 

According to the instructions that came with it, the only limitation on charger type is the charging voltage must not exceed 14.5v and the spec of my CTEK 0.8S seems to meet this.  Although I've never needed to put it on charge so it's not been a problem so far.

Obviously too early to comment on the longevity beyond the 18 months it's been fitted, but so far I'm impressed.  Weighs a smidge under a kilo as well.

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I am very happy with the Banner on my 1600 Sigma and previous K. Sufficient capacity and cranking current and fairly inexpensive. I check the electrolyte twice a year. Over winter I disconnect and do an occasional top-up charge. In the summer I will connect the CTek if I am not using the car for a week or so. I personally wouldn't use a timer to switch the charger on and off.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Leadership Team

Update to my initial post ...

Last Thursday morning i fitted a Banner before heading north on the Scotland trip, it's not failed to start since. Clearly due to being started every day it should have easily remained fully charged, but I'll know after a few days of standing whether it's better than the Odyssey. Interestingly there's been no negative effect on cranking using the Banner which was my biggest fear with a higher powered engine.

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I recently replaced my Banner with a lithium PS-12 LiFePO4 battery.  It required a bit of work to remove the existing battery tray but I managed ok.  It is certainly much lighter than a Banner but the problem is that the immobiliser will run it down flat if not used for 2 weeks, my Banner would last circa 6 weeks.  It does not actually go completely flat, a sensor within the battery turns the battery off at circa 3 volts but most chargers won't charge it because they think the battery is completely dead.  A CTEK Lithium XS charger  has a button that overrides the sensor and allows it to charge the battery but only if you disconnect the battery.

Other than that I have had no problems with the lithium battery and if I had a cut off switch fitted it would prevent the immobiliser drain.  In hindsight, I would not spend money on the lithium battery, I would stick with  Banner, which I still have as a back up.

David

 

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