Nigel Blandin Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Evening all,My BDR had it's MOT today and failed, quite comprehensively, on emissions.The tester used the analyser and 1990 levels, but checking back can I appeal this as;Kit or amateur built cars used before 1998 must be inspected , for emissions alone, as "Registered before jan 1975"The test for cars built pre 1975 is a visual assessment of exhaust smoke only.I have the build sheet and sales invoice from Martin Phipps showing is was supplied as a component car in April 1990.Does that sound like a valid argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted May 23, 2023 Support Team Share Posted May 23, 2023 Yes you are correct and the MOT tester should know it - but most don't. I took to printing off the relevant section from the on-line MOT manual and showing the tester. I've had a few testers insist on doing the basic emissions test which my car miraculously passed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 there's a clear note in the emissions listing that directs the test to identify the correctly using the VIN... I will find and post links here for you, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Support Team Shaun_E Posted May 23, 2023 Support Team Share Posted May 23, 2023 On line MOT manualEmissions testingYou must inspect vehicles with spark ignition engines first used on or after 1 August 1975.You do not need to check:L category vehicleshybrid vehicles - with electric and combustion engineshydrogen fuel cell vehiclestwo-stroke engines - unless they are subject to a catalyst testIf an engine has been modified in any way, it still must meet the exhaust emission requirements according to the age of the vehicle.For emissions purposes only you should treat the following as first used before 1 August 1975:kit cars and amateur-built vehicles first used before 1 August 1998Wankel rotary-engined vehicles first used before 1 August 1987Q plated vehicles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/676700/in-service-exhaust-emission-standards-for-road-vehicles-19th-edition.pdfScroll to page 23 Read the bote at the beginning of the Caterham section Current testing regs:https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/8-nuisance#section-8-2-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 23, 2023 Member Share Posted May 23, 2023 What's the official "first used" date for this Seven?ThanksJonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrightpayne Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 My 98 car is visual only, registered in April.Interesting about the Q plate vehicles - some people are put off these but the emission rules are a positive (albeit they're fairly old anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Area Representative Golf Juliet Tango Posted May 23, 2023 Area Representative Share Posted May 23, 2023 Nigel, where are you based now? If near north London, take it to G & M Reed Motors Ltd 46, St. Albans Road, Barnet, EN5 4LA Tel: 0208 449 7100This is where Rob Morley, who you know well, takes Sevens. I have used them for about 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 This is the intro section to the document referred to at #5:"CATERHAM CARS The VIN Code consists of the 6th letter of the VIN, then engine code is the 8th and 9th digit. Where the 6th digit is 'C' or 'K' and the 10th digit (year code) letter W or before the vehicle concerned should be considered as 'amateur built' and as such should receive a visual smoke test only. Note that '?' can be any figure."Mine is 1999 registered, but my relevant VIN letters are K and W. I'll report back after my MoT once the rebuild is finished... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 mine was a factory built 1999 car which no has a different engine so according to the regs should be tested to the standards of the engine originally fitted - which is actually slightly more lenient than the normal cat test limits.All new test stations and those installing new equipment are linked directly to DVLA and once the reg is inputted it directs the tester to the correct test limits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Blandin Posted May 23, 2023 Author Share Posted May 23, 2023 Wow! Thanks all. to answer a few points raised:Thanks Shaun, that's the section I am using, I'm on the right track.Seven Wonders and JP, thanks but mine predates that. Vin is an old style on 5LC 5181 HPRD, so not enough numbers. Jonathan, July 4th 1990Stephen, good idea, I'll give Rob a shout.7 wonders, as a Jersey car it isn't on th3 list so doesn't show up. I have my data and details and will go back in the morning. Report back soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Blandin Posted May 23, 2023 Author Share Posted May 23, 2023 Wow! Thanks all. to answer a few points raised:Thanks Shaun, that's the section I am using, I'm on the right track.Seven Wonders and JP, thanks but mine predates that. Vin is an old style on 5LC 5181 HPRD, so not enough numbers. Jonathan, July 4th 1990Stephen, good idea, I'll give Rob a shout.7 wonders, as a Jersey car it isn't on th3 list so doesn't show up. I have my data and details and will go back in the morning. Report back soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkeywood Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 '5LC' would normally indicates a factory built car - kit built / component cars normally have a K as the first character. Maybe the original purchaser took it as CKD to avoid Caterhams build queue! Without additional evidence of amateur build (eg notes on registration doc) then testing as a 1990 car would seem right. Hopefully the paperwork will resolve things but might be worth seeing if DVLC will add a note re amateur build on the V5 for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Blandin Posted May 24, 2023 Author Share Posted May 24, 2023 That's why I always thought it was a factory job, but Martin the archivist has confirmed it was supplied ckd to a guy in Poole.I think I will have to ask for an official confirmation for dvla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Blandin Posted May 24, 2023 Author Share Posted May 24, 2023 Here is the build sheet showing component form, but with a factory build chassis number.Well, it should but the build sheet won't transfer. I'll try again.Invoice and build.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 24, 2023 Member Share Posted May 24, 2023 Inline pdf shows OK for me. But we know that format doesn't always display on all browsers and configurations.Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Blandin Posted May 24, 2023 Author Share Posted May 24, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Jonathan Kay Posted May 24, 2023 Member Share Posted May 24, 2023 The resolution is very poor on the second image. I can't read some of the items.The shortcut upload method limits the resolution. If you'd like higher resolution I suggest using the original upload method starting with the landscape tool:Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Blandin Posted May 24, 2023 Author Share Posted May 24, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 These documents aren't great, the VIN is altered on the invoice and the word Component looks corrected on the build sheet. It looks fishy. Have you got the amateur build confirmation certificate. If no I think I would ask Caterham for a letter on headed paper. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Blandin Posted May 24, 2023 Author Share Posted May 24, 2023 If you didn't know Caterham in 1990....it was a bit sketchy to say the least! I have asked Martin to help.I suspect the customer got bumped up the list by knowing someone. HPC's weren't supposed to be sold either CKD or without the driving course...unless you convinced them to sell you one! Interesting little project though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Blandin Posted May 24, 2023 Author Share Posted May 24, 2023 Just a further thought...If I can't get the pre '75 loophole, I have and MBE 9A4 ecu , am I right that I can have a switchable map in there for road use only...i.e. mot time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 With the MBE I'm assuming your on TB's and 3D igntion...? even on OE carbs and dizzy you will be able to get to the 86-92 limits of 3.5% CO and 1200ppm's - a Crossflow running on crushed coal can do that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Blandin Posted May 24, 2023 Author Share Posted May 24, 2023 Yes, Jenvey setup . I'm surprised it's as far out as it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 wonders of the world Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 Check the TB's are carefully balanced, idle imbalance will naturally effect the emissions, if you can beg borrow or otherwise acquire a syncrometer it will help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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