28 posts / 0 new
Last post
Richard Price
Richard Price's picture
Offline
Last seen: 49 min 22 sec ago
Joined: 17/04/2014

John/Purplemeanie,

Gosh. your post took some reading.... :-)

For sprint/hillclimb use (as this post is in the "Speed" section), our primary requirement is to be able to quickly and easily review the run that we've just done. So its important to catch the information we need using hardware alone, so talk of using a separate sound recorder and post production is inappropriate in this instance.

I normally review a each run soon after the run, often simply on my phone. I'm looking to see how I can improve my next run. I started out using a bullet cam and a separate recorder at just 640x480 resolution, which is actually quite adequate. Actually, I feel that sound without wind noise is far more useful that image quality.

Justin,

Something else you may wish to think about is using some analysis software along with one of the GPS enabled GoPros. RaceTechnology offer a standalone GoPro package:-

https://www.race-technology.com/gb/racing/products/video/video_gopro-only

'not as useful as a full datalogging package like I use, but may still be useful to understand your performance.

Wrightpayne
Wrightpayne's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 hours 26 min ago
Joined: 17/04/2014

Alan,

I think I asked before but forgot the reply, how do you attach the iphone?

Ian

mph
mph's picture
Offline
Last seen: 47 min 45 sec ago
Joined: 08/06/2021

I must confess, I hadn't noticed what section the post was in Spin

If you're just after something for analysing a drive in the champs Justin, then maybe a phone you already have is the best/simplest option? For attaching to the car, securely, how about a PeakDesign phone holder with a SmallRig clamp.

For analysis on-the-cheap you could do worse than RaceChrono (17 quid, IIRC, versus the 59 quid for the GoPro option mentioned in #22). If you want to get better GPS data for a more accurate view, I'd recommend splashing out on an external, bluetooth, GPS device like the SkyPro XGPS160. It works seamlessly with RaceChrono.

Heading more towards vbox territory but without quite the horrendous price tag, is it worth looking at the Garmin Catalyst? (never used it, couldn't tell you if it was any good).

--
R400+ | YouTube Nonsense

Purplemeanie
Purplemeanie's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 min 3 sec ago
Joined: 05/03/2017

Hi All, I must also confess that I only realized this was a Speed related post once I was most of the way through writing my last response. But hopefully its still useful to some.

Mark (mph) makes some good suggestions I think - he and I regularly discuss cameras/tech in cars and I know he creates some great video and analysis from them.

If a dedicated camera is still what you're looking for I can offer the following further thoughts on action cameras...

Firstly a general thought: The GoPro 8,9 and 10 don't need a cage to attach them to anything. They have the GoPro"prongs" built in. The DJI Action 2 has magnetic mounting but I probably wouldn't trust it to attach to a roll-over bar. The DJI Action 2 mounts (non-magnetic) are good though. The lack of a cage on the newer GoPros really helps when handling the devices (IMHO). However, the battery doors are a fiddle and getting the sd-cards in and out of them requires patience and decent nails!

Second point, the GPS sampling speed of recent GoPros is higher than it used to be. It's now 10 times per second (UPDATED: thanks Mark-mph), so its able to show better location at higher speed. It still has accuracy problems, but its now higher termporal accuracy and low spatial accuracy! I haven't done high resolution GPS testing on the GoPro 10 so can't comment on how accurate the GPS is now... but i hear its better than it used to be. 

So I guess (as you know) you have two options for reviewing video from an action cam quickly and here are some of my thoughts:

1. Review on device.

  • The GoPro 9 and 10 have the advantage as they have bigger screens.
  • The GoPro 10 has better slow-mo modes and you might consider recording a run in slow-mo to be able to review bits of the run at 200fps (for UK PAL mode), for instance, and really slow it down as you run through that section. Newer phones can do this now of course too.
  • Reviewing footage recorded in slow-mo on the camera allows you to play at normal speed or 8x slower. This feature seems to work the same for GoPro 8,9 and 10.
  • A usable 1080p @ 200 fps slow-mo is available on 8,9 and 10 (but can go to 2.7k on 10)

 

2. Review on a Phone/Tablet

  • Remember that higher frames rates and resolution will create larger files and so take longer to transfer to the viewer
  • If you want to see video as big as possible then you can run the GoPro Quik app on an iPad and transfer your video to it - laptops obviously work too but you'll obviously need a cable to the camera or take out the sd-card and plug it into the laptop.
  • GoPro 10 uses the newer GP2 processor (its a specialized GoPro CPU for imaging) which means the front screen video is less choppy and the user interface is snappier, it also boots up slightly faster. This is also what gives the GoPro 10 better slow-mo framerates.
  • The faster processor of the 10 also means that video transfers to the phone/tablet are slightly faster with a GoPro 10 over 9 and 9 over 8.
  • A 340MB (60 seconds, 4k/25, HEVC) file took this long to transfer wirelessly from camera to phone (iPhone 13 Pro):
    • GoPro10 - 13secs
    • GoPro9 - 17 secs
    • GoPro8 - 25 secs
    • GoPro7 - 25 secs
  • Probably the fastest way to transfer files from a camera to a phone is to take the sd-card out and plug it into a card reader on the phone/tablet. Though this is always a tricky operation and if you're in the outdoors then I'd be worried about dropping the sd-card and not finding it again!
  • Using live review on the GoPro Quik app on phone/tablet (wireless connection needs Bluetooth and Wifi enabled - though it creates a private Wifi, so no need to be connected to a Wifi network) gives a low resolution view of the video but is the fastest way to look at video from the action camera. You can scrub backwards and forwards quickly and then hit play at that point. This gives a much larger view on your phone than you would have on the camera itself though
  • If you want to do more than a quick playback then you have to download the footage to the phone/tablet (see wireless download speeds above).
  • GoPro Live review does not allow you to change the speed of slow-mo footage when you’re looking at it on the phone. You have to download the video to the phone and then you can change the speed when editing... and only when you have a GoPro subscription. Downloading slow-mo footage to your phone (tested on iPhone) and then transferring to the default photos app on my phone will play the footage back at the slow speed only… i.e. 8x slower than normal speed.
  • Summary of that last point… working with slow-mo when you want quick review on phone/tablet is tricky.

If you’d like any other tests or comparisons doing then I can have a go.

John Martin

Caterham 420R SV, lowered floors and some creature comforts.

Yet Another Blogger: www.purplemeanie.co.uk

mph
mph's picture
Offline
Last seen: 47 min 45 sec ago
Joined: 08/06/2021

Neat interaction with RaceChrono and GoPro…

https://racechrono.com/article/2753

--
R400+ | YouTube Nonsense

Purplemeanie
Purplemeanie's picture
Offline
Last seen: 22 min 3 sec ago
Joined: 05/03/2017

Updated #26 to include GoPro7 transfer speeds.

BTW... I'll be at Gurston Down on Sunday to watch the fun. I'll have some GoPro's and DJI Action 2 with me if anyone competing wants to see them. I'll also pack some 360 cameras if that's interesting to anyone.

John

John Martin

Caterham 420R SV, lowered floors and some creature comforts.

Yet Another Blogger: www.purplemeanie.co.uk

Roger Ford
Roger Ford's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 hour 39 min ago
Joined: 17/04/2014

Just a point to consider : for racing we mandate that all competitors carry a camera so the Clerk of the Course and the Driving Standards Team can review footage after any incidents / protests / complaints. Originally most people used GoPro-style cameras. But the number of failures was scary - about 25-30% of cameras didn't record because (1) "I forgot to turn it on", (2) "the battery ran out mid-race", (3) "It somehow switched itself into photo mode instead of video mode", (4) "the memory card filled up", or (5) "I did everything properly but it just didn't record" (the usual one).

So now cameras have to be hard-wired to the car's power, and turn themselves on automatically with the ignition (or at a low minimum speed). We get very few failures now.

That basically means a dash-cam, but surprisingly the number of dashcams available that are suitable for a Caterham are small. INNOVV and Viofo are are main suppliers (noting that some of the INNOVs don't like having power turned off at the kill switch, making them unsuitable), but when my Viofo failed I bought a cheap kit from Amazon which is surprisingly good once I'd added some foam to the mounts to make them more stable.

You don't get 4K at 60fps, or image stabilisation, or any of the other bells and whistles that you get from GoPros. But you do get solid footage which doesn't fail to record.